Dyed swamp ash came out blotchy. Any ideas?

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Triocd

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I sanded to 320 then added a few light coats of color tone dye in water. It’s pretty blotchy. Any ideas?

did I sand to too fine a grit? If I add dye to shellac and just dye with that am I more likely to avoid blotches?
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BFcaster

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Have you sanded since you dyed it? Is it fuzzy? If it is, then the water caused that fuzzy and grain-raise and some of the blotch, and maybe could be corrected with fine-grit sanding. I shy away from water dyes, and use alcohol dyes (aniline or ColorTone in 70% rubbing acohol), but that is my own preference. Yes on ash needing grain (pore) filler- a darker filler accentuates the grain, btw.
 

Triocd

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Have you sanded since you dyed it? Is it fuzzy? If it is, then the water caused that fuzzy and grain-raise and some of the blotch, and maybe could be corrected with fine-grit sanding. I shy away from water dyes, and use alcohol dyes (aniline or ColorTone in 70% rubbing acohol), but that is my own preference. Yes on ash needing grain (pore) filler- a darker filler accentuates the grain, btw.

Yes I tried sanding it a bit. I had previously wet it a few times and sanded down the raised fibers prior to dying.

I used colortone dye diluted in water. Would I have better luck with it added to alcohol?
 

Meteorman

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Wet thoroughly the entire wood surface immediately before applying the dye - use whichever liquid you diluted the dye with.
 

bullfrogblues

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For me, 320 is too fine a grit before staining. I try to stay at 150 if I get all the scratches out, and haven't had a problem with blotching, even on maple or birch.
Most of this was furniture building, but I've also done it on guitar bodies.
 

old wrench

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It's very hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like the darkness and lightness of the dye follows the surface texture of the wood.

Where the wood looks more polished the color looks lighter.

That pretty much follows up with my experience with dyes and stains; once you sand past a certain grit and the surface becomes smoother, the dye or stain seems to show up lighter.

Another thing you might might be dealing with is simply the texture and grain of the wood.

Wood is a natural product with it's beautiful inconsistencies.

The texture of ash, especially the softer "swamp" variety, alternates between hard and soft. The texture usually follows along with the grain, but there are sometimes harder spots scattered across a blank.

.
 

Triocd

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I might try sanding most of the color out with 220 and then trying to dye again. It’s a bummer because it was looking perfect otherwise. I wanted to keep this body lightly colored but if it doesn’t take dye well at 220 I might need to cover the splotches with darker shellac.

the character of this body has lots of hard/smooth spots almost like maple which are not taking the dye up much at all
 

Collin D Plonker

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For mine, I colored shellac sanding sealer with Transtint and applied several coats then finished it in gloss poly. I have since read that the shellac under poly could lead to finish cracking but I have not seen this. It's been about two years now.

IMG_20200702_173532.jpg
 

Triocd

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Yeah I too don't see anything that bothers me either

Yes I didn’t post the most profound picture. The pic doesn’t look too bad but there are some sections that really didn’t take the dye at all. I hope to own the guitar for years so if there are finish flaws I want to get it right.

im sanding most of the color back then I think I will seal it. Either with a wash cot of diluted poly or a 1# cut of shellac. I prefer to use shellac but I want to add dye to the shallac after a couple coats wash coats and I’m worried the dyed coats will work their way through to the wood and continue with blotching. Anyone have any thoughts on using shellac as a sealing coat if I will be using dyed shellac after that?
 

ChicknPickn

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I sanded to 320 then added a few light coats of color tone dye in water. It’s pretty blotchy. Any ideas?

did I sand to too fine a grit? If I add dye to shellac and just dye with that am I more likely to avoid blotches?View attachment 821472

I've had good results sealing smooth ash with sprayed, light shellac, then sanding lightly with 400 grit. Next comes the tinted shellac, sprayed on. Finally, nitrocellulose lacquer. By "light shellac," I mean something a little thinner than a 2-pound cut. Shellac is a great sealer, but other things - - like nitro or polyurethane - - stick to it beautifully.
 

BFcaster

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Yes, shellac as a sealer and dyed (tinted) shellac over it, is perfectly fine. I agree on using nitro over it as a final strong, shiny coat, but it isn't required.
I built a mandolin using the shellac/tinted shellac method, then used varnish on it as I was doing it old school just to do it with a different method from my norm (if I had to do it again I would have skipped the varnish and gone nitro).
 

ChicknPickn

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Yes, shellac as a sealer and dyed (tinted) shellac over it, is perfectly fine. I agree on using nitro over it as a final strong, shiny coat, but it isn't required.
I built a mandolin using the shellac/tinted shellac method, then used varnish on it as I was doing it old school just to do it with a different method from my norm (if I had to do it again I would have skipped the varnish and gone nitro).

When I started getting interested in shellac as an instrument finish, a lot of people said it wouldn't hold up over time. So I topped it with lacquer. But a couple of necks I have that are shellac-only have done just fine after years of use. Then I had the idea of putting shellac on a pair of salad claws that are used pretty frequently. The shellac, made from flake, was a good-quality, dewaxed product. These claws go through the dishwasher at least a couple of times a week. And the finish is still pretty darned good after four years! The picture is shellac and Trans-Tint finished with nitro lacquer.
 

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Triocd

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Yes, shellac as a sealer and dyed (tinted) shellac over it, is perfectly fine. I agree on using nitro over it as a final strong, shiny coat, but it isn't required.
I built a mandolin using the shellac/tinted shellac method, then used varnish on it as I was doing it old school just to do it with a different method from my norm (if I had to do it again I would have skipped the varnish and gone nitro).

I was about to do a seal coat with dilute poly but you may have changed my mind. I prefer to use shellac but I worry the dye will work it’s way through the seal coats and continue to reach the wood and stain unevenly. You don’t think that will happen? Since each shellac coat melts the prior coat(s) I was afraid to use it and continue to get blotching on the wood.

I also worry I’ll be able to spread the dye out evenly in shellac since it dries so fast. Any tips for that or should it be fine using a typical french polish technique?
 

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I would fill the pores first (couple of times), then seal with a couple of light coats of shellac. I wouldn't worry about tinting the shellac. Unless you're using super blonde, shellac has a good amount of color in it already. Lightly sand with 320 or 400 to smooth it. It may look like you sanded through in spots but you've actually sealed the wood. Wipe with alcohol to see how it'll look under finish. Proceed with color coats till you get the tone you like. Topcoat with clear.
 

BFcaster

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I agree with telepraise (above). multiple pore-filling (3 times is a good safe bet, but maybe more are needed) actually will help prevent blotching the wood, as the pore filler not only fills the ash's holes but also the tiny little microscopic fiber gaps that trap dye that make it blotchy. Adding seal coats shellac over that would then be the way to go. And I agree you may not even want to french polish- it could end up too dark. It's happened to me. A shiny polished clear gloss coat over any finish will darken it, actually I think it makes colors more vibrant and smooth so light hitting it is less diffused.
 

painter33

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Wood, open or closed grain, will accept stain somewhat differently over its surface, especially when there is a visible grain pattern. Additionally, even similar values of the general natural color will accept or repel stain at different rates leading to the mottled look. The best way to avoid it has already been described (grain filler, sealer coat(s), and building successive coats - all with shellac cut w/alcohol). Sanding between coats isn’t necessary but will keep trapped dust, etc. from collecting under the layers. After many coats, the whole deal can then be just waxed to a high gloss finish obviating a need for varnish or lacquer. Sort of like a tung oil finish but not with oil! Take it down, start over; been there, done that!
 
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