Duplicolor Perfect Match Finishing Issues

[newuser1]

I have this basswood body finished with Duplicolor Perfect Match spray cans about a year ago. I used Duplicolor grey primer, then several color coats of Duplicolor Perfect Match and finally I finished it with a Mohawk clear instrument lacquer. I've recently drilled the neckplate holes in the body and put some painters tape at the back of the body to minimize chipping. To my utter surprise when I pulled the tape after drilling it peeled off the color in a few spots showing clear patches of grey primer under. It looks like there's no any adhesion between the primer and the color layers.

What caused this?

Should I sand everything down to bare wood and start over?

How would you fix this?

 

[Sea Devil]

It looks as though you stopped well short of the point where the paint could self-level. It's very unusual for an amateur finisher to use too little paint, but that's what it looks like to me.

You might get a better-looking result if you start over, but that's a lot of work. I'd just get a fine round artist's brush, maybe a #2, and carefully touch up those areas with the same color. Start at the edges and try to load the brush just enough that you can put down a drop and push it around for a second or two, because that's all the time you'll have before it starts to get gooey. Do it in multiple passes with a few hours in-between.

Most of the neck-plate area will be covered. I wouldn't even bother hitting the spots you can't see.

 

[Boreas]

Apparently the color coat did not adhere well to the primer. This can happen if you spray the primer and spray color directly on it without any sanding. I like to take a grey Scotcbrite pad and lightly rough up the primer to give it some tooth to hold the color. It shouldn't be necessary, but can often save your butt. You may want to contact the company and see if they have an explanation.

ALSO, some masking tape is very aggressive. I just ran into this today on a bumper. After touching up a small ding (fingertip) I removed my masking tape and up came the poorly applied paint from someone's previous repair because they did not rough up the primer. Live and learn. I used an overly-aggressive blue tape.


I would repair your goof as @Sea Devil suggests.

 

[eallen]

Typically with nitro such as mowhak clear used it melts into prior layers of nitro with no need to sand. The challenge is knowing what duplicate perfect match actually is. Many lacquer finishes are acrylic lacquer or a nitro derivative with unknown additives. As a result, mixing and matching brands can have inconsistent results.

It is also helpful to understand the purpose of clear coat in older finish types like nitro. It allows tbe surface to be final sanded perfectly flat for buffing without degrading the color coats. If not being sanded flat there is really no need for it. The end texture of your coats indicates you weren't getting good finish flow of the color before applying clear. That level of texture will be difficult to sand out in the clear coats. When using uncertain compatibility coats, it is best to sand between the different types. Unfortunately it is not wise to sand color coats at the risk of sand thru. You are best to practice to get quality color coats and then stick with the same brand clear.

 

[newuser1]

Too late for touch-ups, I sanded it down to bare wood . I will finish sanding the sides tomorrow.
I decided to fully strip it, because I was able to scratch it with my fingernails without much effort all the way down to the wood - this is not a good, durable finish. No idea why the finish was so soft, apart from the fact, as one poster above suggested that my coats of color and clear were very thin and very few.

 

[Sea Devil]

I've never run into any adhesion problems using acrylic lacquer and nitro together. They can yellow at vastly different rates over time, but that's the only issue I've seen.

It's still a good idea to use the same brand from start to finish.

It looks as though you have a full wood shop there, so I won't lecture about the importance of prep work, just remind you of it.

 

[jman72]

Too late for touch-ups, I sanded it down to bare wood . I will finish sanding the sides tomorrow.
I decided to fully strip it, because I was able to scratch it with my fingernails without much effort all the way down to the wood - this is not a good, durable finish. No idea why the finish was so soft, apart from the fact, as one poster above suggested that my coats of color and clear were very thin and very few.

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View attachment 1262103

I used pretty much the exact same method you used and got the same poor results. Even after several years it still stayed soft and peeled badly. The color just didn't adhere to the primer and it never hardened.

I just finished stripping it and refinished with Krylon and nitro. So much better.

 

[Sea Devil]

i suspect that jman72's experience with Krylon was more than a half dozen years ago. Krylon has since been reformulated and is no longer a lacquer. The newer version is readily identifiable by the tapered, stepped caps Krylon now uses. I don't know exactly what it is now, but it is supposedly an "enamel," which is a decidedly ambiguous term. I wouldn't recommend coating it with lacquer.

What worked well for me when I wanted to finish a guitar in Dakota Red, which is pretty much what the OP's guitar looked like, was Montana Gold aerosol in Brick Red and clearcoated with Mohawk Ultra-Flo Ultra Bond gloss. I know I cautioned against mixing brands, but this variation has been field-tested. Just be warned that the Montana colors have a tendency to get absolutely everywhere regardless of barriers, ventilation, etc. I was still finding red dust in remote corners months after spraying.

(Prep coats here were Mohawk Vinyl Sealer and Mohawk White Primer. Low areas that appeared partway through the process due to the age and distressed nature of the substrate were addressed with further application of vinyl sealer over the color, followed by more color and clear. Somehow it worked.)

 

[Zepfan]

Dupli-Color is a water based product(latex).
That means, the primer and clear coat needs to be the same type of product(latex).
Sanding is required between primer and paint and between paint and clear. Why? To remove any imperfections and make the product to be sprayed adhere properly.
People are always looking for an excuse not to sand, but it is a necessary evil and this is why.

 

[Sea Devil]

"Just the facts, ma'am" Dept: Duplicolor makes a range of products. None contains latex. Any assertion to the contrary is categorically, irrefutably wrong.

Their PerfectMatch aerosols are absolutely not water-based. They are acrylic lacquer.

As for the latter portion of the above post: I always sand my primer to a high gloss with no imperfections. It needs no tooth whatsoever for color coats to adhere correctly. With good application, no further sanding is required at the color coat or clear stages. Obviously, application can be less than ideal and defects can be remedied with sanding.

(If silverface were still with us, he would be handing down an epic tongue-lashing over that post! I hope I come across as a bit gentler in my refutations.)

 

[guitarbuilder]

I had the same issues as the OP with my perfect match paint job. I'll add the white hasn't faded in many years of being in the sun daily for 10 years, while the white pickguard is now yellowish. The PM had grey duplicolor primer and was sanded before the color was applied.

 

[newuser1]

Sanding is required between primer and paint and between paint and clear. Why? To remove any imperfections and make the product to be sprayed adhere properly.

Sanding of the primer is not required according to DupliColor's site and this is acrylic lacquer, which is definitely not water-based.

 

[Zepfan]

Sanding of the primer is not required according to DupliColor's site and this is acrylic lacquer, which is definitely not water-based.

It's not recommended to use a mix of products. Water based primer with water based paint and water based clear for best results.
I've heard the no sanding necessary BS for some time, but I always see the posts about the problems.

 

[Boreas]

Too late for touch-ups, I sanded it down to bare wood . I will finish sanding the sides tomorrow.
I decided to fully strip it, because I was able to scratch it with my fingernails without much effort all the way down to the wood - this is not a good, durable finish. No idea why the finish was so soft, apart from the fact, as one poster above suggested that my coats of color and clear were very thin and very few.

View attachment 1262102
View attachment 1262103

If you were able to scratch it down to the wood, it sounds like adhesion was bad there as well. Did you apply shellac or other sealer before primer? How much drying time? It has been gawd-awful humid here making painting nearly impossible.

I also wonder if the solvent in the clear lacquer caused an issue because it wasn't compatible with the Dupe. You may want to consider Dupe clear as well. If eventually you want to eventually apply clear lacquer, give the base a long time to set up and cure - say a coupla months. I have sprayed lacquer on stable POLY with no problems, but that is a different animal.

 

[newuser1]

It's not recommended to use a mix of products. Water based primer with water based paint and water based clear for best results.
I've heard the no sanding necessary BS for some time, but I always see the posts about the problems.

How is that a BS if it's in the recommended application procedure on the manufacturer website? Also I'm not sure, why are you obsessed with water-based finishing products...

If you were able to scratch it down to the wood, it sounds like adhesion was bad there as well. Did you apply shellac or other sealer before primer? How much drying time? It has been gawd-awful humid here making painting nearly impossible.

I also wonder if the solvent in the clear lacquer caused an issue because it wasn't compatible with the Dupe. You may want to consider Dupe clear as well. If eventually you want to eventually apply clear lacquer, give the base a long time to set up and cure - say a coupla months. I have sprayed lacquer on stable POLY with no problems, but that is a different animal.

Here in Toronto is as humid as where you are and this is not helping when spraying. I decided to go with a stain and wipe-on poly finish on this guitar. Here are the results after quick stain. Never knew that basswood can look that good natural...

 

[Zepfan]

The no sanding in the recommended process is IMO sales pitch BS, because they know how much people hate to sand.
In all my experience of painting, sanding is a necessary evil. I get best results sanding and wet sanding.
Doesn't mean that I don't have any issues painting, but I don't have this issue.

 

[Sea Devil]

I sand the hell out of my primer, but not for adhesion. It's to make it so gob-smackingly perfect that I don't have to sand the subsequent coats.

For the third time: Zepfan, Duplicolor makes no water-based products.

 

[NICQ]

I've finished 20+ guitars with Duplicolor Primer & Color and used a 2k for the clearcoat (not from Duplicolor) and never had any problems with the coats not adhereing properly.. weird.

Normally I use the Primer over pore-folled bare wood sanded to 240 - sand the primer dead flat with 400 - apply another light coat of primer and let that dry overnight - rough that up with 400 or 600 and then apply the Duplicolor Metallic Color (1 light pass and one wet after 5 mins) - after 45 mins I spray the 2k over that (I think its called Colormatic - sold at the same car supply store here) and let that dry.. never had any issues and they still look great after 7-8 years..

My guess - since Duplicolor is acrylic based the coats don't melt into each other like nitro - the sanding between each applied coat ensures better adhesion.. if you apply several coats of color over the primer without sanding and letting them dry completely between each coat maybe that's why it kinda flakes off ?

 

[NICQ]

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Love that "cherryburst" effect!!
White pickguard?

 

[guitarbuilder]

not too much nitro..

https://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=DUPLI&prodno=BUN0090&doctype=SDS&lang=2