Dumble - An Unpopular Opinion

[homesick345]

I have played thru a Dumble. ... The Emperor has no clothes.

I have played my fair share of turds, (Goddam awful) whether Marshall JTM 45 & Plexi - as well as Fender blackfaces, including (especially) my beloved super reverbs. (And yes, many Marshall & Fender are now in the low to mid 5 figures).

..And who hasn't: that old twin that stinks, or that 4 input Marshall that sound like crap....The funny thing is we judge those amps by the ONE (or couple) great example we played or heard, but you judge Dumble by that ONE amp that sounded bad?

Let that sink for a moment ....what we need to explain is the rage that get hold of some of us here, at the mere mention of a tube amp called Dumble.

 

[Silverface]

I was curious to hear a Dumble amp and watched some videos on youtube.
Maybe i'm deaf after 35 years of rockin but i don't hear much difference between a Dumble and my Peavey Bandit for 100 bucks.

I have a 66 Bassman and a 57 5E7 Bandmaster clone that "I think" sound better than that.

I have played thru a Dumble. One was for sale in the early 1990's and Aspen Pitman had just released his Groove Tube tube amp book. That's where I had heard about them. I played through the amp it was shrill and lifeless.

If you go back and read my posts all of this is clearly explained. It's impossible to listen to a Youtube video or even play through *a* Dumble (or any singularly-voiced amp) and know how it sounds - each one is voiced for the played it was built for. They are also all extremely touch sensitive and reactive to the position of guitar controls.

They are not amps most players can plug into and get a good sound out of. They aren't meant for that type of flexibility. It takes quite a bit of time to get a good soud out of one not built for you, and some players can't dial one in at all unless it's revoiced for them.

There is NO "Dumble sound". The sound is that of the player that ordered it - or who it was re-voiced for if Dumble modified it for a new owner. While there are labeled "models" those are just general "feature" descriptions - not tone, or even gain descriptions. Part of the reason the original prices were so high is that they are not "production" amps, even in the sense most boutique amps are built with "models" consisting of many identical amps.

They are all "one-off" amps uniquely tweaked for each specific customer.

 

[JD0x0]

What's the Dumble sound? All of these recordings have Dumbles in them. All different flavors of tone.

(2:20 for solo)

(3:10 Solo)

 

[Silverface]

What's the Dumble sound? All of these recordings have Dumbles in them. All different flavors of tone.

EXACTLY.

 

[MilwMark]

EXACTLY.

Ok. But all 4 are using different guitars, different pickups and different technique.

Allowing for that, the tones are all more similar than different. Meaning, a vintage strat will have a very different attack envelope from a superstrat. and a lap steel or slide on a LP will also have very different attack characteristics, resonant frequency, sustain envelope, etc.

So I think part of this is, we all think of "same" and "different" differently. So what one person thinks of as very different amp sounds may be mostly similar to someone else. Doesn't make either wrong.but does produce a disconnect.

I'm not surprised that all of those are Dumbles. There is something in the mids that seems to carry across models for me. Though I could just as easily have guessed Boogie for the Lionel clip.

 

[Flakey]

Dumbles suck as well as their premises for existence. Nothing that couldn't be achieved though any other well made amp, a quality guitar and a new set of strings. Anything that a player dislikes after that resides in the player's own ability. Throwing $ at an amp won't change suck.

 

[Bluesdriver]

If you go back and read my posts all of this is clearly explained. It's impossible to listen to a Youtube video or even play through *a* Dumble (or any singularly-voiced amp) and know how it sounds - each one is voiced for the played it was built for. They are also all extremely touch sensitive and reactive to the position of guitar controls.

They are not amps most players can plug into and get a good sound out of. They aren't meant for that type of flexibility. It takes quite a bit of time to get a good soud out of one not built for you, and some players can't dial one in at all unless it's revoiced for them.

There is NO "Dumble sound". The sound is that of the player that ordered it - or who it was re-voiced for if Dumble modified it for a new owner. While there are labeled "models" those are just general "feature" descriptions - not tone, or even gain descriptions. Part of the reason the original prices were so high is that they are not "production" amps, even in the sense most boutique amps are built with "models" consisting of many identical amps.

They are all "one-off" amps uniquely tweaked for each specific customer.

I understand that...and if you go back and read my post I stated the prospective buyer would have to decide whether they are worth the inflated price...or not.

Just like watching these guys with bottomless pockets on the Barrett Jackson auctions.

They bid and win a car then their buddy shakes their hand and pats them on the back.

Congratulations! You just paid ten times to much for that car!

Actually... I couldn't care less if someone wants to spend 50K on amp or 100K on a car.

It's their money.

 

[cousinpaul]

I give Dumble credit for his changes to the Fender tonestack. They have a lot to do with the amp's distinctive sound as opposed to Boogie, etc.

 

[Silverface]

I understand that...and if you go back and read my post I stated the prospective buyer would have to decide whether they are worth the inflated price...or not.

Just like watching these guys with bottomless pockets on the Barrett Jackson auctions.

I know them, they are good people.

I don't think you did read my posts, unless it was just the very short "summarized" last one. Your comparison of markets isn't valid - rare vehicles are not all made/designed for single buyers, nor did I touch on test-playing amps as a prerequisite for purchase. I said playing "one" at all wasn't representative and that chances it would be voiced for that player were pretty much nil.

They might as well be two different discussions.

 

[Silverface]

Dumbles suck as well as their premises for existence. Nothing that couldn't be achieved though any other well made amp, a quality guitar and a new set of strings. Anything that a player dislikes after that resides in the player's own ability. Throwing $ at an amp won't change suck.

Did you read any of the thread or just post based on thee topic? Because you don't seem to grasp the concept that they are one-off amps made for individual players. You comment is denigrating a large number of well-repected professionals that apparently disagree with you.

Why, instead of simply posting generalities don't you go into some specifics - pick 5 players' tone that you heard their Dumbles live (so your opinion won't be colored by lousy stereo speakers, poor Youtube recordings etc) and tell us what they could have used (that would cost them less money than they paid) to sound the same.

Without something pretty close to that there's no weight behind your statements.

 

[Mr_Martin]

Maybe the Dumbles were something special in the 70s.
Today you can achieve the same sound with a mid class modelling amp or with some free plugins on your pc.
Things have changed.

By the way: i owned a lot of amps in the last 35 years (Marshall, Kitty Hawk, Jim Kelly, Fender, Boogie, Peavey, Vox, Orange, Roost, Hiwatt)
and i never heard a big difference when the band starts to play or even in the studio.
It's all Voodoo.....

No one can recognize a special amp if you hear a recording.
I played Marshalls that sounded like a Fender and Fenders that sounded like a Marshall after the mix.

That's why i play a redstripe Peavey Bandit now.
For the money i've saved i can buy strings and beer for the rest of my life

PS: sorry for my bad english

 

[homesick345]

Maybe the Dumbles were something special in the 70s.
Today you can achieve the same sound with a mid class modelling amp or with some free plugins on your pc.
Things have changed.

By the way: i owned a lot of amps in the last 35 years (Marshall, Kitty Hawk, Jim Kelly, Fender, Boogie, Peavey, Vox, Orange, Roost, Hiwatt)
and i never heard a big difference when the band starts to play or even in the studio.
It's all Voodoo.....

No one can recognize a special amp if you hear a recording.
I played Marshalls that sounded like a Fender and Fenders that sounded like a Marshall after the mix.

That's why i play a redstripe Peavey Bandit now.
For the money i've saved i can buy strings and beer for the rest of my life

PS: sorry for my bad english

Please understand that Dumble (as in ODS & others) is above all amp circuits - It's like discussing 5E3; AB763; or 2061 JMP Lead & Bass - but here it's called 183; 102 or 124...

these circuits are now available. You can have one built for 1/2K - handwired chassis eyelet & all top quality components.. For God;'s sake, get over the economic value some amps are fetching on the used market.

YES - Plug-ins exist for Dumble, as Plug-ins & modelers for almost all of Fender & marshall circuits. Nobody is saying OH PLEASE PUT FENDER & MARSHALL OUT OF BUSINESS - WE HAVE PLUGINS

 

[Bluesdriver]

I don't think you did read my posts, unless it was just the very short "summarized" last one. Your comparison of markets isn't valid - rare vehicles are not all made/designed for single buyers, nor did I touch on test-playing amps as a prerequisite for purchase. I said playing "one" at all wasn't representative and that chances it would be voiced for that player were pretty much nil.

They might as well be two different discussions.

Whatever you say...have a nice day!

 

[Flakey]

Did you read any of the thread or just post based on thee topic? Because you don't seem to grasp the concept that they are one-off amps made for individual players. You comment is denigrating a large number of well-repected professionals that apparently disagree with you.

Why, instead of simply posting generalities don't you go into some specifics - pick 5 players' tone that you heard their Dumbles live (so your opinion won't be colored by lousy stereo speakers, poor Youtube recordings etc) and tell us what they could have used (that would cost them less money than they paid) to sound the same.

Without something pretty close to that there's no weight behind your statements.

Well you're contradicting yourself here in one sentence you say they’re custom built for the player therefore the implication is that there is nothing that will substitute for that player’s amp. Some sort of sonic Excalibur that will only work in the hands of the chosen one. If that is in fact the case then that amp is on no value except to that specific player. So where does the 5 figure aftermarket price come from?

Today there are many amp makers that will do the custom tailored sound for any player if they want to pay the money that are far less expensive than Dumble . I know of two in my area that have national artist endorsements. They are friends of mine. Mr. Dumble holds no exclusive franchise of electron sauce and circuit mojo.

Actually yes I've read the thread and I'll stand by my previous statement; the emperor has no clothes.

 

[homesick345]

Well you're contradicting yourself here in one sentence you say they’re custom built for the player therefore the implication is that there is nothing that will substitute for that player’s amp. Some sort of sonic Excalibur that will only work in the hands of the chosen one. If that is in fact the case then that amp is on no value except to that specific player. So where does the 5 figure aftermarket price come from?

Today there are many amp makers that will do the custom tailored sound for any player if they want to pay the money that are far less expensive than Dumble . I know of two in my area that have national artist endorsements. They are friends of mine. Mr. Dumble holds no exclusive franchise of electron sauce and circuit mojo.

Actually yes I've read the thread and I'll stand by my previous statement; the emperor has no clothes.

Flakey, all amps are "voiced" to some ears. Nobody is designing amps in vacuum, or for pure theoretical pleasure.

Take the blackface showman, or the Fender reverb sound. A case can be made that it was "voiced" for Dick Dale. He contributed immensely, including going to JBL factory with Leo to source the speakers...it's amp history.

Now Dumble; with lower production numbers; has produced "voiced" amps indeed - but some of those circuits are now famous, copied all over: 102,124, 183 etc..to the delight of many players, including myself.

I sound like crap (or AM radio - take your pic) on every Marshall I ever played. Does it mean Marshall sucks? Of course not. It's not for me. And even if one specimen did indeed suck: many reasons could be brought to the table.

Long story short; my point is : it's a circuit. Like 5E3. Like 6G16 or 1959 Super Lead. The man did create circuits - did modify the eq stack; did incorporate, & place, his famous distortion in the (ODS) models, & many other innovations... Whether we like it or not, nobody can take this away from him.

 

[JD0x0]

Ok. But all 4 are using different guitars, different pickups and different technique.

You forgot, different amps too.
Funny you mention they sound more alike than different.
1st vid sounds like an 80's High Plate ODS
2nd Video is a Tweedle Deluxe. Modded 5E3
3rd is a 70's low plate ODS, likely through the FET input boosting the signal, for more drive.
4th is also 70's low plate ODS w/ what sounds like a brighter voicing, so likely the 'classic' tonestack.

BTW, I've tried dozens of modelers going for the ODS and other Dumble sounds, some of them get pretty close in a recording, but the feel and response is no where close to even a decent clone. I would love for them to be indistinguishable, so I could just buy a BIAS head, and have 100's of amps, instead of lugging around tube amps, but unfortunately digital modeling is not there yet, IMO, or at least the modelers I've tried so far.

 

[6BQ5]

Why won't this thread die?

 

[blowtorch]

because everyone thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong

 

[Bluesdriver]

Well you're contradicting yourself here in one sentence you say they’re custom built for the player therefore the implication is that there is nothing that will substitute for that player’s amp. Some sort of sonic Excalibur that will only work in the hands of the chosen one. If that is in fact the case then that amp is on no value except to that specific player. So where does the 5 figure aftermarket price come from?

Today there are many amp makers that will do the custom tailored sound for any player if they want to pay the money that are far less expensive than Dumble . I know of two in my area that have national artist endorsements. They are friends of mine. Mr. Dumble holds no exclusive franchise of electron sauce and circuit mojo.

Actually yes I've read the thread and I'll stand by my previous statement; the emperor has no clothes.

I was going to bring that up decided it wasn't worth debating anymore.

Your point makes the ridicules inflated prices even less defensible for the fanboys.

 

[MilwMark]

You forgot, different amps too.

Actually that was my whole point. The amps sound more similar than different to me in those clips. And to me the main differences come from different instruments being played in each. Others clearly disagree but I think Dumble amps broadly speaking do have a sound. Sort of like taking a nice SF Fender, adding a Tube Screamer for those honky mids, but with even more gain and better clarity and dynamics.