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Dual P-90 In Telecaster 250k Vs 500k

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by Teuphoria, Mar 13, 2016.

  1. Teuphoria

    Teuphoria TDPRI Member

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    Hi.

    Any opinions on pots and caps?
    I have a Nebelung Telecaster with Vintage Seymour Duncan P-90's in it.

    I'm leaning towards CBS 500K pot for volume and 500K for tone as well. The sound now is quite muddy with 250K pots in it.
    I think it's a 22cap in there.

    I have K40Y-9 0.047uF PIO 200v Caps available...and ofcource Sprague Orange Drops in different size's. I will experiment with different types.

    I play mostly clean with mild overdrive. Love that vintage sound. So clarity is a must here!

    Appreciate any opinion:)
     

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  2. titchy

    titchy TDPRI Member

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    My Tele' originally had 1 meg pots and sounded very sharp indeed (Dogs were scared to walk past our house f i was playing my Tele')
    I now have 250k which i thought is the norm' but i'm wondering if it's a bit muddy (Especially on the neck pick up)
    Comparing my Strat' and Tele through the same set up the Tele' sounds downright dull.
    I have a .033 cap now, i tried the .022 but it didn't do much and the .047 was the other way where it made it sound awful if you turned down the tone knob.
    I'd be interested if anyone has 500 k pots to see what they say.
     
  3. Teuphoria

    Teuphoria TDPRI Member

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    I think 500K pots is "standard" with P-90's. And Tone pots maybe 50/50 between 500K and 250K. Not sure tough.
    I may add that I don't have many hours on this guitar. So I've got no experience on it. But my ears say its too muddy:)

    I really dont believe that PIO caps makes any huge difference either. Value makes difference...not type of cap. And ofcourse the entire signal chain!
    But thats my opinion.
    I think I'm putting in a treble-bleed-mod as well.
    I have shielded the control-cavity but not the pickup-cavity's.
    Not sure if there is any noticable difference. But hey...its P-90's right!? :) Gotta be some hum!!:)
     
  4. JD0x0

    JD0x0 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Higher value pot = More resonant peak = more perceived high end. (actually, not really 'more' but rather, less bled off compared to lower values)

    Cap value = treble cut when tone control is rolled back significantly. The cap makes NO difference with the pot on '10' so a cap change WILL NOT help if the guitar is 'muddy' with the tone control wide open...

    There's no 'rule' I use 1Meg pots on some of my single coils and very often use 'no load' tone controls. If your sound is muddy, 500k/500k is my minimum recommendation. 500kVol/No load tone would open up the top end a bit more. The 'no load' essentially bypasses the tone control so on '10' there's virtually no high end loss. And remember, you can also roll the tone control back, and get the same effect as the lower value pot. Cap composition is basically irrelevant, here. Bigger value cap = bigger treble cut, and lower cutoff frequency (ie. Bigger caps cut more into the upper mids, and midrange on top of cutting 'more' highs.)

    I've been preferring much smaller value caps on my tone controls as I find them more versatile and prefer the sound tone of leaving the upper mids intact and lack of mud/muffled ness. I've been using values around 2.7nF, 3.3nF, 10nF, rather than the standard 22nF or 47nF values, but the control does become much more subtle, in a way, with the lower values. That's more of a preference thing, and mostly depends on how often, and how you use your tone control.

    FWIW
    My #1 tele with singles uses 500k volume/500k ('no load' mod) tone (33nF cap)
    My single coil Strats use 500k volume/ 1Meg tones (10nF cap)
    My TV Jones load Cabronita uses a 1Meg volume/ 1 Meg (no load mod) tone (2.7nF cap)
    My ASAT (humbucker w/ coil split) uses 500k Volume/ 1Meg (no load mod) tone (8.2nF cap)
    Superhawk (humbucker w/ coil split) Uses 1Meg Volume/ 500k tone (push/ull for coil split) (3.3nF cap)

    I broke all the 'rules' and my guitars all sound great to me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2016
  5. Mike Simpson

    Mike Simpson Doctor of Teleocity

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    P-90 under 8k use 250k pots and .047 caps. to me they are no different than Tele pickups. Hotter winds may benefit from 500k but I don't like the hotter pickups myself.

    my #1 has 3 P-90's (7.0k to 7.7k) and 250k pots
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2016
  6. Teuphoria

    Teuphoria TDPRI Member

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    Thanks for your comments...thats what I love about this game. "There's no rules"...."if it sounds great, it is great":)

    The 1M tonepot is something i've never considered. But sure will try it now.

    Also like the idea of small cap values...never been hard on the toneknob anyways;)
     
  7. Teuphoria

    Teuphoria TDPRI Member

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    Thats a nice Tele you've got. Is it selfbuild? And correct me if I'm wrong but do you have 2 switches on that controlplate? Looks kinda like the big brother of my Nebelung:)
     
  8. Mike Simpson

    Mike Simpson Doctor of Teleocity

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    The chickenhead knob at the rear is a varitone switch, both pots are 250k, the lever switch is a 5 way like a strat and there is a push pull switch on the tone pot so I can still get neck + bridge like a 3 way Tele in the middle.
    I built this guitar in 2010, I made the body, pickguard, control plate, neck plate and brass ferrule block. The neck is an Allparts TMO-fat. I have played hundreds of gigs with it.
    Here is the build thread. http://www.tdpri.com/threads/tres-recogida-especial.196963/
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2016
  9. Teuphoria

    Teuphoria TDPRI Member

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    Awesome!! There`s nothing like selfmade:) And that Tele is a beauty.
     
  10. Teuphoria

    Teuphoria TDPRI Member

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    OH BTW...I measured the 2 P-90`s today. And Neck Pickup came out at 7.57k. Bridge pickup measured 9.4k. I wasn`t expecting the bridge pup to be 9.4k but honestly....I have no idea what audible difference that would be compared to 7.57k in bridge. I don`t know much about P-90`s in general..but the inscription on the back of these are: Neck Pickup- ILX94 SP90-1N 0345
    Bridge Pickup-ILU70 GP90-1B 0347
    And ofcource the Seymour Duncan name is also printed under there!

    Would you say these pickups are a good match? Or is the values I measured making them "different"?

    Anyways. It sounds pretty great with the 250k pots I´m using now. But I hope the 500k`s will give me even more distinct sound.

    I guess I´m kinda comparing them with my Seymour Duncan Antiquity pickups in my other Tele. They have such a nice open top end. Clarity is the word I´m looking for!!

    Not that I`m expecting the same thing from P-90`s!!! But the top end...I miss that clarity!

    Anyways....I will probably dream of 3 P-90`s now;)

    Thank you all for all help and opinions so far!
     
  11. surfoverb

    surfoverb Doctor of Teleocity

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    my p90 tele has an overwound lollar 9.5K and uses 500K pots.
    Thats what I would use.
    [​IMG]
     
  12. songtalk

    songtalk Friend of Leo's

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    Try a 0.001 uF treble bleed and then turn your guitar volume down to 7. Really opens things up!
     
  13. philosofriend

    philosofriend Tele-Holic

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    I agree with JDox0 about using smaller values on the tone control. I also put a 25k resistor in series with the tone control. The effect is as if you were to block the knob so it can't turn down into that last murky few degrees of it's rotation. When picking the value of the tone capacitor I want to turn the knob full down and play through the pickup selector positions; I want each position to sound like a genuine usable tone, just darker and gutsier that full up. This allows me to be more sloppy with turning the tone knob in the heat of battle.
     
  14. Teuphoria

    Teuphoria TDPRI Member

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    Really like the idea of a 25k resistor in series with the tone control!! Thank you very much. Seems like toneknobs is the "weak point" in guitars! Leo sure did some good work on my G&L Comanche.

    I have ordered a couple of Rotary Switches and cap`s in all kinds of values. Really like the idea of having...lets say... 6 fixed positions with my "personal choices". Its kinda comforting with fixed positions in the toneknob-universe.......I hope;)

    Right now my Nebelung is set up with 500k volume and a no-load 250k tonepot with a TC223J 400V cap on it. Everything is sweet when the toneknob is set at no-load ofcourse. Really like the sounds I`m getting out of it. But turning the toneknob is all about how much wooly/muddy crap I can take;(

    So a rotary is next up. Not really sure of what caps to start with yet...Time will show.

    Oh....another thing...I wired it up using the Seymour Duncan 4way switch diagram. The weird thing is when I`m in bridge-mode and tap my neck pickup gently with a small screwdriver...I get like a weak signal there!! Is that normal?

    Really love all your inputs! It`s so nice knowing I`m not alone on "the geek planet" ;)
     
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