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Drum machine and looper both into one powered speaker? Or what rig?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by telemnemonics, Jan 10, 2021.

  1. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    My only amp with a loop is an OR15 with those cute lunch box size transformers.
    My sense is that it lacks clean headroom and in particular cannot deliver much bass before the OT saturates.

    However, I've been really wanting another guitar amp!
    And a bigger one!
    My rare mob mentality that brought me to owning numerous under 20w tube amps needs to end!

    I'm not sure I have enough $$ left in the noise war chest to swing a 30+w head with loop, but damn that would simplify and also get me a new guitar amp!

    Sorry all, I'm being open minded which leads to waffling.
    Seriously considering all the suggestions though, could be the final (or V1) choice comes down to what I find locally and don't need shipped.
     
  2. beninma

    beninma Friend of Leo's

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    Different use cases perhaps but I have a Rocker 15.

    I have basically never had it distort the drums with the RC-10R or the Beat Buddy running in the loop.

    Doesn't matter which channel on the amp I run, no matter how much gain I push on the dirty channel, etc..

    I will admit I have never cranked the volume on the drums on the pedal. Not sure what would happen if you did that.
     
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  3. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Well that’s surprising, but I have not tried that.
    With multiple guitars and drums through that small amp staying clean, what kind of volume are you getting all that clean at?
    I got tired of the dirty sound I get from my he OR15, usually like it but less so lately.
    I’m hundreds into my infinity and beat buddy so not going off them but it’s something to try, even if only the guitar loop into FX loop.
     
  4. beninma

    beninma Friend of Leo's

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    A device like a looper does not make everything X times louder based on how many tracks you're mixing together.. it's just mixing everything together.

    I do think if you crank the master volume on your OR 15 and then run everything really hot in the loop it ought to distort. I just have never needed to do that or had a place I could do that without blowing my ears out.

    But I don't have an OR15. The Rocker 15 doesn't distort the power tubes much till you're WAY up the dial. Even in 0.5w/1w mode it's stupid loud before you get power tube distortion. It's not like Fenders where they're breaking up halfway up the volume.. it's at least 3/4 of the way up on my particular Orange.

    As long as the looper/drums are in the FX loop though remember the gain knob on the amp does not affect them at all.
     
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  5. James Knox

    James Knox Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    Here is what I am doing. My Wife and I play Classic Rock Hits from the 60-70s as a 3 piece. She plays an Upright Bass through a Fender Rumble Bassman 100. I do Vocals and play a JP Dragon Tele through 2 small pedalboards. Beat Buddy is our Drummer, lol.

    Pedalboard 1 is a Tuner, Tech 21 Oxford Amp Emulator, MXR Univibe and a Carbon Copy Delay. These are fed to Pedalboard 2, which is a Boomerang Rang 3 into the Beat Buddy. That output goes to a QSC K-10 Powered Speaker on a Stand behind and between us. The Powered PA Speaker, the Rumble Bass Amp and both Guitar Pedalboards run on power from a Solar Charged Lithium Battery Inverter System. The Powered Speaker has 2 inputs, I run the vox through 1 and the guitar, looper, BB through #2.

    When we were gigging we did a lot of open air Markets, busking, etc, which got us lots of Private Event Gigs like Weddings, Baby Boomer Birthday Party’s, Holiday Party’s, etc.

    The fact that we were battery powered got us Gigs we couldn’t have done. If we had a gig where we could plug in, I would take a tube amp to play the guitar signal and still run the BB and Vox through the PA.
     
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  6. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Dayum!
    All those electronics, keeping track of which does what, AND a solar charged lithium battery inverter???
    You gotta have a space ship parked at the gig, eh?
    OK so I googled that QSC and it's six hundred bucks!

    So, why is the boomerang running in to the beat buddy?
    Did you mean beat buddy into boomerang to loop the drum part with your rhythm guitar?
    This tech has been around a while but there seems to b many ways to use it.

    Ultimately though, the only amp/ speakers for the whole mix is the bass amp and the QSC?
    That QSC is only a 10" bottom driver so that's interesting, still not caught up on how small speakers put out big sound, but I'm getting there.

    Much appreciated info!
     
  7. cyclopean

    cyclopean Poster Extraordinaire

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    we're a pretty loud band, and i suspect that also running vocals through those amps at practice before we had a pa may have had something do with those amps dying, because i know other people who have used them just for drum machines in loud bands who haven't had that problem.

    i'd guess, if you don't want to spend a couple hundred dollars on a pa system, that a bass or keyboard amp loud enough for a bass player to keep up with the guitars may be sturdy enough to not have the speaker die. i really think most amps aren't made to be run dimed all the time they're on. or maybe guitar amps are because so many of us like the sound of a maxed out amp, but bass and keyboard amps aren't made with that kind of tolerance because people don't tend to push them as hard.

    putting the less loud amps up on chairs and leaving the more powerful amps on the floor can help, too.
     
  8. cyclopean

    cyclopean Poster Extraordinaire

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    i'd imagine most people on this board don't have a lot of experience gigging with a drum machine, so here's a really, really hard earned piece of advice:

    you know how when the stage sound turns to mud, you can kind of watch the drummer's arms to try to lock into the tempo?

    yeah, that doesn't work with a drum machine, and if you're playing a venue where the person doing sound isn't used to performers using drum machines, you may have a hard time getting them to turn it up loud enough in the house or in the monitors for you to hear it.

    also, if you're used to a good loud drummer, be realistic about the wattage and decibel level you're going to need to make that happen when the drums don't physically exist on the stage.
     
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  9. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Unfortunately my hearing was bad enough years ago that I could barely hear my guitar on stage without being "too loud".
    I can't remember using the visual cue of the drummers movements but that makes sense.
    Playing live music you can't hear is a nightmare.
    My last steady drummer is responsible for a good 25% of my hearing loss!
    Younger than me but I think he's gone from this world so I can't blame him for hitting so hard when he was here...
     
  10. DeepDangler

    DeepDangler Tele-Meister

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    I just run a Boss Jam Station into mine which has MIDI sounding backing tracks. The Katana only has one AUX input but you could plug a looper into the katana front end and have it play the loop distorted and the drum machine or backing track will come out clean. A boss Katana 50 mark 1 is around 150 bucks these days so that would be the cheapest setup for what you want.

    If I was spending more money, I’d buy a powered mixer, some PA speakers, and a Boss multi FX processor like a Gt1000 or an ME80 and run that directly into the mixer along with a drum machine.
     
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  11. James Knox

    James Knox Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    Really not to hard to keep track of everything. I have our set list programmed into the Beat Buddy. Using simple beats that go with the groove of the particular song. When one song is over, I just click the button to advance to the next song. I use the Rang to lay down a rhythm for lead breaks or for alternate riffs, etc. A pretty simple set up and approach. The most complicated I get is to have 2 different guitar parts looped at once. I keep it simple and minimal on purpose.

    I Use the Vol/Tone/PU Selector Controls on my Tele For Clean/Crunch/Lead. Use the MXR Vib when I need swirl. CC Delay always on faint in the Background for thickening.

    The Key for my guitar tone really is the TECH 21 Oxford Amp Emulator. I used a Helix Stomp for a couple years till by an accident I discovered the Oxford. I had tried several Tech 21 Amps And Amp Pedals prior to getting the HX Stomp and didn’t really dig them. Got the Oxford used for $100 after reading a few guys mention that it had something special going on. Seriously, the best Tone and Tactile Response next to a cranked Amp I have experienced in all my years of playing. They are hard to find now, but if you get a chance, snag one. Anyway, the big payoff is going DIRECT to the PA. And it sounds awesome. Very inspiring.

    lol. The whole thing actually takes a very small footprint. We easily fit under a 10 foot pop up canopy with lots of room so spare. In the vehicle, the Upright Bass takes up most of the room.

    I know, right. When I bought it, I had never spent that much on one pa speaker. BUT, I had just been 4 days at the Sawdust Festival in Laguna Catching about 20 live bands and the ones using QSC were definitely a step above in the PA dept. Now, after 5 years of use, it had paid for itself over and over. It’s rock solid and never let us down. Not once.

    Sorry for not being more clear - the Looper is SYNCED to the BB via Midi, but the signal runs THROUGH the BB. This allows me to run Guitar, Looper and BB into ONE channel of the PA. If I was going into a mixer, I would separate them. But why carry, setup, tear down one more piece of kit if you don’t need to, right?

    Yes. We are right next to each other with the PA And Bass Amp slightly behind and between us, so we both can hear everything. We have the same mix as our audience.

    Class D Power. Super efficient Engineering. High SPL. You owe it to yourself to listen/audition with Yamaha, Mackie, Behringer, etc. The difference was really startling to me.

    Anyway, I look forward to hearing about how your new project progresses. Hopefully we can all be Gigging again if we live through this Season.
     
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  12. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Thanks for explaining all that, I'm not getting it in my soul but at least considering that guitar through the PA is viable.
    I've played a Tech 21 GT2 live into PA and didn't like it but didn't get much time to figure it out. I'll keep an eye out for an Oxford, I do like Orange amps a lot.
    For now just focusing on looper and drums into whatever I get but it's really useful to understand why I would run the looped guitar through the beat buddy: one output into the PA rig.
    Considering an Alto TX210 powered speaker as they are around $100 used.
    Also got one midi cable for the BB but still waiting on the other in the mail.
    Just pulled my board apart to change the power supply and clean it up, but seem to have killed my decimator NR.
    Not sure if I might have plugged it into the 12v cable for my delay or it was the loose jack I tightened but it's dead and costs around $200. There goes my speaker budget! Still figuring stuff out and it's dead of winter so all's well.
    Thanks again!
     
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