Double Stop Chart I Made

Discussion in 'Tab, Tips, Theory and Technique' started by JeradP, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. JeradP

    JeradP Former Member

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    I'm trying to learn double stops and where they are without needing to think.
    I came up with this chart, can you guys tell me if there are errors or what you think of it?

    B and G string double stops, with high e,D,A,E 1234567 notes for filler. The BG strings are color coordinated per stop. I hope there aren't any errors because I've been learning this way for a few days. My tele goes to fret 21, so that's where I cut off the notes.
     

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  2. jbmando

    jbmando Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Well, if your intention is to show only the key of G major, it's fine, but there are a lot of double stops on other strings in other keys. I think you are making the concept of double stops much harder than it is. What you really need to learn is the notes of the fretboard and intervals. Find out where all the double stops are on the fretboard. If you know your notes and your chords, you won't have to think about which double stop to use where. You should also learn where the 3-b7 and b7-3 double stops are for all the keys. This is a very useful tool for accompanying a variety of styles of music.
     
  3. JeradP

    JeradP Former Member

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    I made it so it was a moveable chart, starting in G major. My problem is I don't know theory, and I'm a visual learner because of that. Could you help point me in the right direction? I was just planning on learning 2 strings at a time, and BG seemed the easiest for me at this time. I want to know what I am playing, rather than knowing I am just playing. Theory has always been hard for me to grasp, but I've never known where to start
     
  4. jbmando

    jbmando Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Okay the first thing - the BASIS for EVERYTHING ELSE in music is to learn the major scale forwards and backwards (literally.) You already know the syllables: do re mi fa sol la ti do, now assign a number to each syllable (also called "degree") do=1, re=2, mi=3, fa=4, sol=5, la=6, ti=7. Now, look up "triad" and form triads starting with every note of the scale and using ONLY notes in the scale. You will discover that 1, 4 and 5 are major triads, 2, 3 and 6 are minor triads, and 7 is a diminished triad. You can put that one aside for a while until you get a grasp of the other ones, but knowing these triads will give you a start on theory. More in next post.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2011
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  5. jbmando

    jbmando Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Now, a very important fact for communicating musically is this: THE MAJOR SCALE INTERVALS BETWEEN THE NOTES IS ALWAYS THE SAME, AND THE NOTES ARE NAMED IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER, EACH NOTE HAVING A DIFFERENT LETTER NAME. You will not see the A major scale written like this: A B Db D E Gb Ab A, even though those notes will sound correct. The notes all have to have a different letter name, in alphabetical order, so the Db has to be called C#, the Gb has to be called F# and the Ab has to be called G#. Some keys (such as A) are called "Sharp keys" and others, like Bb and F are called "Flat keys." You will never see flats and sharps mixed in the same major scale. These two posts are a good start and once you get a good handle on this much information you will be ready to start expanding your musical knowledge.
     
  6. jbmando

    jbmando Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    The spaces between the notes in a major scale are always the same. Here they are, in steps. On a guitar, one fret is a half step, two frets is a whole step.

    1 whole 2 whole 3 half 4 whole 5 whole 6 whole 7 half 1

    Now, given that each degree has to be a different letter name, and the steps have to be right, here is a little exercise in naming the degrees of a scale. Let's do F# just for kicks. The degrees are going to be some kind of F G A B C D E and F. Let's see what we have to do to the notes in order to end up with an F# major scale.


    1 (Do)=F#. This is also known as the root.
    1 to 2 is a whole step, or two frets. Two frets up from F# is G#, therefore, 2 =G#.
    2 to 3 is a whole step, a whole step up from G# is A#, 3 = A#.
    3 to 4 is a half step; Half step up from A# = B, 4 = B.
    4 to 5 is a whole step, a whole step up from B is C#, 5 = C#.
    5 to 6 is a whole step, a whole step up from C# = D#, 6 = D#.
    6 to 7 is a whole step, a whole step up from D# is E#, 7 = E#. Here is where you might be asking, "E#? Why not just call it F?" Good question. Here's why. We're in the key of F#, so all F's are supposed to be sharp. Each degree MUST have a different letter name, and from 6 to 7 HAS to be a WHOLE step, so we HAVE to call it E#, even though it sounds exactly like an F.
    7 to 8 (1) is a half step. Look at the interval between F and F#. It's obviously half a step. Since we have already seen that 7 is E#, but that E# sounds exactly like F, we know that E# is the correct note as it is half a step lower than F#, our root.

    There you have it. Each degree has a different letter name and all the intervals are right. Notice that in the F# major scale, six of the notes are sharp. Not so coincidentally, "Six sharps" is the key signature for F# major. Cool, huh? Starting to see anything?
     
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  7. JeradP

    JeradP Former Member

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    jbmando THANK YOU
    That is a lot to take in, but I will definitely work on it. I know a lot of "things", but I don't know where they start, why they started, or where they go. This will be very helpful, I appreciate the time you put into this :D
     
  8. jbmando

    jbmando Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Did you look up "triad?" A triad is a three note chord and the root position contains, in order, the 1, 3 and 5 notes. The notes of a triad are two intervals of a third stacked together. For a major triad, the bottom interval is a major third and the top one is a minor third, the middle note is shared by both intervals. Root > major third up to 3> minor third up to 5. Got it?
    Okay, a minor triad is a minor third on the bottom, major third on top. Root > minor third up to 3 > major third up to 5. So far so good. We use only scale notes to form the triads on each degree of the scale, so for examples, let's use the key of C because there are no sharps or flats in that key. Here is the C major scale: C D E F G A B C. Okay. Let's do the triads.
    1 triad = C E G. C to E = major third, E to G = minor third. Therefore, 1 is a major triad.
    2 triad = D F A. D to F = minor third, F to A = major third. 2 = minor triad.
    3 triad = E G B. E to G = minor third, G to B = major third. 3 = minor triad.
    4 triad = F A C. F to A = major third, A to C = minor third. 4 = major triad
    5 triad = G B D. G to B = major third, B to D = minor third. 5 = major triad
    6 triad = A C E. A to C = minor third, C to E = major third. 6 = minor triad.
    7 triad = B D F. B to D = minor third, D to F = minor third TOO. Whoa! WTH??? What is a minor third on top of a minor third, sharing the middle note? It is a diminished triad. Remember from that post up thread, I said 7 was diminished? That is why. Can you guess what a major third with a major third on top of it sharing the middle note is? That is right, an AUGMENTED triad.

    Notice anything interesting about the quality of the triads built off the major scale degrees? Did you see that the 1, 4 and 5 were the only major triads? Ever hear anyone say, "It's a 1,4, 5 song?" Now you might be getting the idea why. Key of C, 1, 4, 5 = C F and G. Sound familiar? See, it isn't that hard. It only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it it's more like a skilled trade such as plumbing. Still takes a little thinking but it can be done by almost anyone.
     
  9. jbmando

    jbmando Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    For 9ths, 11ths, and 13ths, just keep going in the next octave. The 9 is the same note as the 2; the 11 is the same note as the 4 and the 13 is the same note as the 6. Theoretically, to use the 9, 11 or 13 in a chord, the FLATTED 7th is supposed to be present. It is not true in every case, but a majority of the time, when you see a 9, the b7 will be there too. If you see 11, the b7 and the 9 will usually be there. For a 13, the 11 will usually NOT be there, because it has the same sound as the 4 and tends to produce an unwanted tension or dissonance in the chord. If the arranger does not want the b7 in a chord with the 9 in it, they will usually call it "add9" or 2. An 11 without the b7 will usually be called a 4 or sus4 chord. A 13 without the b7 is probably a 6 chord.
     
  10. jbmando

    jbmando Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    The minor triad which contains the same note as the root of the major scale is called the "Relative minor." You've probably heard that term before. As you can see from the chart up thread, the 6 is the relative minor of the 1. This is true for every major scale. Now here is a little shorthand to make it easier to differentiate the quality of chords when you are trying to communicate music. Use Roman numerals, and make them Upper case for major, lower case for minor. That way, if you want , say, a D major chord in the key of C, call it II and you know it's major. If you just wrote 2, it would be minor by default. So, you have I ii iii IV V vi ... what about 7? Well, it's usually written with a superscript circle (degree symbol) such as vii°. You can type one of those by using Alt + 0176 on a Windows computer. Let me know if this is too much information.
     
  11. Badabing

    Badabing Friend of Leo's

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    Jb.
    Man you are scaring me with your knowledge!!!! That is awesome!!!!
    Thank you for sharing!!!!!!
     
  12. JeradP

    JeradP Former Member

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    WOW thank you for taking the time to share. I really appreciate it. I honestly think I've just been lacking that first couple steps to point me the right way. I can't thank you enough. I'll be working on this :D
     
  13. JeradP

    JeradP Former Member

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    Oh, by the way, you said to tell you if this was too much information. I can't get enough. But for the sake of ease and so you don't have to keep teaching me, what book would you recommend? I was looking on Amazon and found "Guitar Fretboard Workbook" that had great reviews.
    http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Fretbo...iarino/dp/0634049011/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
    Playing guitar isn't new to me, knowing what and why things go together are. It's like having a TV with no way of turning channels; I have one thing I can do while the other stuff just exists elsewhere. I know the major scale, 145/ 236/ 7 maj/ min qualities, but applying them to different situations is where I get messy. Again, I really appreciate the time you took to help, I am grateful for it, and will use it.
     
  14. jbmando

    jbmando Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    That book looks pretty good. He teaches something similar to CAGED but he doesn't seem to call it that. I'd go for it. Next thing we're going to cover is the circle of fifths or maybe adding a fourth note to our triads. Then maybe mode names.
     
  15. JeradP

    JeradP Former Member

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    jbmando, I greatly appreciate your tips. You don't have to put any more up though, for me atleast. This is going to take a while to learn and be able to apply. Anything you put up, I will eventually learn, but you've been kind and put so much up for me already
     
  16. jbmando

    jbmando Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Okay, here's a little thing that may seem like an anomaly. When a chord is called a "something 7th," it really means the FLATTED 7th degree of the major scale. For example, a C7 has C E G and Bb, not B natural, which is the scalar 7th. This type of chord is usually referred to as a "Dominant 7th." If you play C E G B it is a C Major 7th, usually written Cmaj7 or CM7, as opposed to Cm7 which is C minor seventh. In a "minor 7th" chord, the thing that makes it minor is the third and it still uses the flatted 7th. If you play a C minor chord with the major 7th, it would be called Cm(maj7.) In this case, the "minor" means the third and the major means the 7th. To review chord names:

    C = C major = C E G
    C7 = C major with a flat 7 = C E G Bb
    Cmaj7 = C major 7th = C E G B
    Cm7 = C minor 7th = C Eb G Bb
    Cm(maj7) = C minor major 7th = C Eb G B

    "Seventh" is the only degree which has what seems like an inconsistent definition. All the other scale degrees are what they are: second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, ninth, eleventh and thirteenth are always what they seem to be. The modifier will tell you what to do to it. For example: b5 means lower the scalar 5th 1/2 step. #9 means raise the scalar 9th 1/2 step.

    TIP OF THE DAY: The 3rd and the 7th are all you need for a chord to sound right in a blues or jazz accompaniment. Try this: play xx67xx for 4 beats, then drop it down to xx56xx for 4 beats, then back up to xx67xx for 8 beats. Now go up to xx78xx for 4, down to xx56xx for 4 and back to xx67xx for 4. These are 3-7 and 7-3 double stops in the Key of E. In the first chord, the 4th string is the 3rd and the 3rd string is the seventh. In the other two, the 4th string is the 7th and the 3rd string is the 3rd. Pretty cool, huh?
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011
  17. Bandit

    Bandit Tele-Meister

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    Double Stops


    Strings 1 2 3, Key D

    Play the major scale with chords.

    1 2m 3m 4 5 6m 7m 8
    D Em F#m G A Bm C#m D
    --2------------------------14----
    --3------------------------15-----
    --2------------------------14------
    -----------------------------------
    ----------------------
    -----------------------

    Play the major scale with chords
    1 2m 3m 4 5 6m 7m 8
    G Am Bm C D Em F#m G
    -------------------------
    -0--------------------12------------
    -0--------------------12------------
    -0--------------------12---------------
    --------------------------
    -------------------------


    Figuire out these chords. then only play two notes at a time. PSG players do this stuff all the time. They play chords up and down like a country bass player would play walks
    1 2 3 4 4 3 2 1
    eg. D Em F#m G. G F#m Em D.

    And yes I do know that the 7m is wrong. It should be a 7diminished. But walking up and down the scale with A diminished in the walk sounds weird.
     
  18. jbmando

    jbmando Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    How so? I think it sounds great. More right than a minor to my ears. I'd play a C#dim in your exercise.
     
  19. P Thought

    P Thought Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    I tuned in to this thread to find out what "double stop" means.

    Never did find that out, but jbmando, what a great brief on music theory!

    What is a double-stop?
     
  20. jbmando

    jbmando Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Two notes fretted at the same time. Chuck Berry's music has a lot of examples of double stops. The intro to "Brown Eyed Girl" is double stops. Get the idea?
     
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