Don't hear much about Fractal and Kemper, could it be because,

surfsup1955

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Did a backstage tour of the Grand Ole Opry this year and the guitarists that used digital, were all using Kemper or Fractal units. I always hope to find Line 6 gear at the pro level, but so far not much to see.
 

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SASouth

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BOSS is still loosely following this business model, when they release a new product their view appears to be that it is fully mature when it hits the market and will remain largely unchanged until a new unit replaces it. Line6 saw what was going on with Fractal and Kemper with their upgrades and realized that this was the way to move forward with their competing product (Helix and its derivatives), but I'm not sure if that approach has trickled down to the rest of their line.
Add Fender to the list companies that don’t support their products.
Anyone here buy a V.1 Mustang amp only to have it superseded by a V.2 version a short time later with no upgrade path?

Then when you “upgrade” (buy) to the V.2 amp they replace that with the Mustang GT with a new app called Fender Tone which isn’t compatible with the V.2 or V.1 amps.

Then to add insult to injury they discontinued Fender Fuse after telling us they would continue to support it only to then eliminate any mention of it on their web site other than a terse message declaring that Fuse has been discontinued.

My ass is still chapped on that whole fiasco.
 
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silentbob

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I think your starting premise might be flawed...

Fractal Audio Systems Forum

Kemper Profiler Forum

Digital & Modeling Gear @ The Gear Page
Bingo, can't base your premise on such a limited window on the world.

I switched to Kemper years ago and haven't looked back, but I don't feel the need to proselytize about it here. In fact, since I lost my old account info and set this one up, I haven't posted here in years and only saw this post because it was featured in an email.

Modeling and profiling are getting more and more ubiquitous as price points plunge, but the high end market is still dominated by Kemper, Fractal, Line 6 and Quad Cortex. The fact that the Kemper is still a viable top-tier product a full decade after it was introduced is absolutely absurd when you consider the number of iterations of other products that have come and gone during that time.

More than anything, the Kemper largely cured any type of GAS I had. I never look at new amps, I don't care about drive or effect pedals anymore. There's almost no chance that I'm going to need a tone that isn't in my library of 3,000 profiles. What does that leave to talk about, pickups and guitars? After playing for 30 years, my preferences are set there and my knowledge is pretty solid. I spend a lot more time playing and lot less time researching or arguing. Especially with the type of guys that trash Gibson because they can't afford one and state emphatically their Epi is better in every way right out of the box.

Speaking of price, the Fender modeling was mentioned in the original post. That's one amp model for $1000 and currently no path to add to that or upgrade.

TLDR; lots of reasons modeling and profiling folks aren't here, almost none of them have anything to do with the quality of the product.
 

codamedia

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Did a backstage tour of the Grand Ole Opry this year and the guitarists that used digital, were all using Kemper or Fractal units. I always hope to find Line 6 gear at the pro level, but so far not much to see.

They are out there... keep looking ;)
In fairness, at the pro level I see them most often in hybrid setups... but their are some players that use them as their full rig.
 
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Derrick

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Why aren't Fractal and Kemper talked about much anymore? Could it be their price? They are prohibitively expensive for me.

Also, could it be that the less expensive gear is catching up to the big boys? Not totally there but darn close?

Thoughts?
Yea, I think it's the situation that (1) the main attraction of modeling amps are the convenience of portability (size/weight) and all the amps tones and effects all in one. (2) Those brands are expensive though. So (3) because Boss, Fender, etc have done a good job supplying low cost alternatives, they accommodate the majority of #1 and #2 and there are less people still interested in the expensive options. (4) People predicted the end of tubes two months ago, which fed some pre existing worry by some that tubes amps were going away, and panic. But tubes bounced back so quickly that a lot of people see the continual strength of tube amps and are going/sticking with them for the sound and feel. The posts inquiring about modeling amps during the short tube supply issues have largely subsided.
 

ReverendRevolver

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Yea, I think it's the situation that (1) the main attraction of modeling amps are the convenience of portability (size/weight) and all the amps tones and effects all in one. (2) Those brands are expensive though. So (3) because Boss, Fender, etc have done a good job supplying low cost alternatives, they accommodate the majority of #1 and #2 and there are less people still interested in the expensive options. (4) People predicted the end of tubes two months ago, which fed some pre existing worry by some that tubes amps were going away, and panic. But tubes bounced back so quickly that a lot of people see the continual strength of tube amps and are going/sticking with them for the sound and feel. The posts inquiring about modeling amps during the short tube supply issues have largely subsided.
With point 3, those products are going to Always be the most often seen digital solutions, just by sales volume. If they have that in a music store next to the TM version of something, and the real tube amps, people who want digital aren't typically getting to take a stab at an AxeFX, so the Katana or Mustang are the only products that really do multiple different sounds in that regard available to touch and play with. If they wanted the sound of 1 amp, they're not likely to venture towards approximations of several.

If the higher end digital achieves better midrange price point penetration, it may change a bit.

But tubes aren't going anywhere. I have no need for digital modeling, I take different amps to different bands if needed. Another thing to remember with the absolute BEST in digital is that plug-ins are so popular for recording that people who never play live might also see 0 reason to invest in something they believe they can copy through thier DAW for less $$.

I think if tube production became a huge issue, companies relying on X tube and Y circuit for Z sound would find ways to crank out single ended lower power stuff with the idea of mic'ing it (since that's popular anyway) and hybrid stuff would likely be a profitable research path for many otherwise complacent companies.
(Or they'd be lazy and we would get a box that's a micd 8"speaker pushed by a champ circuit attached to a class D PA system with an extra input on it....) ;)

But looks like the worry is over with that.
 

MrSea

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A couple of years ago an old friend (who I had not seen in long time) brought his Kemper to my house for a jam. It sounded absolutely great and made me doubt my devotion to my ‘smallish’ tube amps. To be fair it was run into my PA system so it sounded really BIG next to any of my self standing combos. I have since found that mic-ing my tube amps in conjunction with my pedal board will definitely approach some of the Kemper tones. I have not gone the Kemper route because of the 1) cost factor and 2) because of the learning curve that is required. I am trying to learn to play. I’m just not that interested in how to engineer tones out of software.
 

uriah1

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Yep. The Fractal and Kempers are for the big boys, with the big money. They pretty much do what they say.
The studio stuff is getting better too. (amplitude ,Scuffham, etc)

I disliked all non-tube until I saw GE Smith with a Line 6 when they first came out.

However, that said, I still will not dip my toe in the water. I prefer the real deal (to me) lol
 

Pandak

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FWIW, I went down the Kemper Rabbit Hole for a year - trying to decide on what 1000 profiles I'd load on the device. Sometime later, I pull my head out of a very dark place, found 9 profiles that I love and another 5 or 6 for specific jobs and that's all I've got loaded. Never been happier. Still use a fairly minimal pedal board and I've got more bases covered (more reliably/consistently) than I ever had with my old JCM 800. Happy chap. :)
 

Frodebro

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FWIW, I went down the Kemper Rabbit Hole for a year - trying to decide on what 1000 profiles I'd load on the device. Sometime later, I pull my head out of a very dark place, found 9 profiles that I love and another 5 or 6 for specific jobs and that's all I've got loaded. Never been happier. Still use a fairly minimal pedal board and I've got more bases covered (more reliably/consistently) than I ever had with my old JCM 800. Happy chap. :)

I haven't added any profiles to mine in probably five or six years, and generally use just two performances-one with a 5E3 at varying levels of gain, and one with a '69 50W Plexi (also with five different gain levels). Most of the time I just stay on the Plexi.
 

Pandak

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I haven't added any profiles to mine in probably five or six years, and generally use just two performances-one with a 5E3 at varying levels of gain, and one with a '69 50W Plexi (also with five different gain levels). Most of the time I just stay on the Plexi.
Yep, I hear where you're coming from. I've got a clean 'liveplayrock' profile of Dave Gilmour's HiWatt stack that is my go to for 90% of my stuff. Couple of Vox and Tweed profiles from M.Britt or Tone Junkie to round it out. COnsistent, quality sounds that interact beautiflly with the guitar.
 

Frodebro

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The manuals are way too big for me...

View attachment 1011206

They’re only as complicated as you want them to be. When I first got started with Logic Pro, I took it in small chunks as I went. First the very basic stuff (add track, set levels, add plugins), and as I got comfortable with each level of operation I would learn about useful features beyond that as I went.

Same thing with modelers. Just take the ten minutes to learn how to get up and running, then move forward from there incrementally. And with the dedicated forums and YouTube tutorials there is always a quick and easy answer to any questions you might have.
 

fenderchamp

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Why aren't Fractal and Kemper talked about much anymore? Could it be their price? They are prohibitively expensive for me.

Also, could it be that the less expensive gear is catching up to the big boys? Not totally there but darn close?

I have the Boss Katana 100 Mk2 and right away with minimal tweaking I was getting tones that were as good or better than my tone crafting skills on the Kemper. Mostly because I would lose my focus in the vast complexity of juggling 10 parameters at the same time in an attempt to dialing in a great tone when you forget what you had just 5 minutes before. I found it real hard to be happy. There are great profiles I could have bought but what I had already done so far left me pretty unsatisfied with my ability, I was a guitarist not a sound engineer.
So I'm very happy with my Kat, perfectly simple to get great consistent tone.

I hear similar stories from people that use Fender modeling, and many other brands/rigs, and these units are sounding very good.

It's like Fractal and Kemper were the thing even 5 yrs ago but the distance between the final tone between them is getting closer and closer.
To be on top they're going to bring it at the same price as my Kat or Fenders or they will be pushed to the side, mostly Fractal's modeling, but it will affect Kemper too to a bit lesser degree, imo.

Thoughts?
because the tdpri is centrally located in luddite land?
 

Old Deaf Roadie

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I would offer that we are the worst group to decide what sounds good & what doesn't. Arguing amps, pickups, and strings among this crowd is akin to debating politics & religion. I would also offer that if one has found an item that satisfies their desire, then that person should be commended for escaping the rabbit hole, and not shamed for how they got out.
 




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