Don’t need a lot of effects. Should I still go modeling?

Discussion in 'Modeling Amps, Plugins and Apps' started by CrazyDrew6, Nov 23, 2017.

  1. CrazyDrew6

    CrazyDrew6 TDPRI Member

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    Howdy y’all-
    I need to complete my rig and I have some money to do it. Step one is to get some effects. I don’t need much, my dream rig looks like:
    1. Marshall JCM800
    2. Mesa/Boogie Triple Rectifier
    3. Fender Tweed Champ/Deluxe
    4. Vox AC30

    1. MXR 10 band eq
    2. MXR 10 Band eq (after pre amp distortion)
    3. Boost pedal
    4. Boss CE-2
    5. BB Delay
    6. Tape Delay
    7. Reverb
    9. Compressor
    10. Mooer Pitch Box

    And that would probably be my whole rig for my entire life. That would probably cost $5-7,000 to purchase, and I was planning to save up for that my entire life.

    Then I saw the Kemper vs. Real Amp Anderton’s video. I was sold on modeling’s affordability and ease of use. I’m fine with anything as long as it sounds good. I was looking at the HeadRush because of the effects, versatility and cost. It’s $850 at Guitar Center right now.

    I’m really a stickler about Tone. Perfection is the only option. So here’s my question after all this set up:

    1. Will a HeadRush sound present live? Would a Kemper? Would it sound as good as a real amp?

    2. Would it sound real in the studio?

    3. Would modding the original sound be possible? I love the Bias idea but it apparently sounds terrible.

    4. Would the HeadRush feel like a real amp?

    I ask these because there’s not much about the HeadRush. IDK what people mean by fizz, but I need midrange which I think the helix lacks. Don’t recommend the helix, I hate the high gain sound.

    I’m in a punk band. I need this to be able to play chuggy metal, as well as clean up and play some blues, jazz, funk, etc. I have a Marshall DSL40C stock because it’s versatile. I play a Les Paul. Thanks in advance for the help! This probably will be a rig that will last me many years.


    CONGRATULATIONS! YOU MADE IT TO THE END OF MY POST! GOOD WORK!
     
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  2. rickthescot

    rickthescot Tele-Holic

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    That's funny, one rig setup for the rest of your life... How many times have we all said that to ourselves?
     
  3. 24 track

    24 track Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    I have been getting my life time one rig set up for the past 30 years,HMMM
     
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  4. Jules78

    Jules78 Tele-Holic

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    Just buy a mesa boogie mark. Very versatile. Just have to learn how to use it. Plenty of settings listed online.
     
  5. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Was Windows 97 the perfect operating system? The only one you'd ever need?

    First, things change. Tastes evolve.

    Second, modeling slots you into the software cycle. If a tube amp does it for you, then it will continue to do so indefinitely. Or less if a current production amp, but you get the idea. Tried and true.

    If you're really that particular with tone, only you can tell if it's good enough, but .... I doubt it will be. And then were are you? You don't have an amp. Just a sound-making-thing and you don't like the sound.


    I'm a retired software developer, and I'd rather chew my arm off than to have my rig depend on that stuff. Oh, it can be very dependable. Until it's obsoleted. Tube amps may be obsoleted at some point, but the cycle is on the order of half-century or more. Software updates occur yearly and are non-optional somewhere around the three year mark.

    I'm happy with my vintage tube amps.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Hexabuzz

    Hexabuzz Friend of Leo's

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    And if you went modeler, what power amp/speakers would you be using?

    I think that's the first time I've heard "I play in a punk band" and "perfection is the only option" in the same post...

    How are you defining perfection? A tone you hear on a recording? What you hear in a room? Playing live with the amp cranked? Amp mic'd and through a PA?

    So many options here...


    Without fully taking the back end (speakers/amp) into account, I tend to think of modelers as amazing, but going for more of that "direct/mic'd" sound, and that recorded perfection, with all the great options of cab sims, IR's mic choices, etc. As soon as you take that into the same realm as a combo/stack with a real amp (tube/ss/whatever) the game has drastically changed.
     
  7. Hexabuzz

    Hexabuzz Friend of Leo's

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    Also, just curious about your assessment of the Helix and other products you mentioned, like Bias...

    Have you actually played through any of these, or are you just going by reviews and YouTube videos?
     
  8. JL_LI

    JL_LI Friend of Leo's

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    First off, you need to realize that there is no such thing as perfect, at least in an amplifier. Find something you like the sound of. It will probably be a tube amp. Make sure you like it clean and pushed hard. You can add effects any time with pedals. Don't think your first amp will be your last. You may need a grab and go. You may need power for the stage. You may want an entirely different sound one day. It'll be a hell of a ride. Hang on and enjoy it.
     
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  9. CrazyDrew6

    CrazyDrew6 TDPRI Member

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    I played through the HeadRush. I didn’t have time to run it into anything properly, but I could tell it sounded a little too compressed and I was wondering if it could be fixed and made more realistic as well. I can’t get a hold of the Kemper, but I’ve seen it compared to a helix which my guitar teacher has for reference. He makes it sound like scooped madness. I’ve also seen the Kemper compared to the bias, which makes it sound thin and dead, which is not an option. I’m going for the sound of a real cranked amp in a room. Perfection is the amp not distorting digitally and having the dynamic response to stand up to a real tube amp. If that doesn’t work, I’ll keep my tube amp or get another that gets me closer to where I want to be.
     
  10. Darkness

    Darkness Tele-Afflicted

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    Check out the BluGuitar AMP1. It will meet or exceed most if not all of the OP’s requirements
     
  11. CrazyDrew6

    CrazyDrew6 TDPRI Member

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    So, is modeling technology still inferior tone wise to tube amps? If so, I’ll buy some pedals and save up for real amps.
     
  12. bottlenecker

    bottlenecker Friend of Leo's

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    You want the sound of one thing, but wonder if a different thing can sound enough like the one thing that you can use the different thing instead. What's the motivation to not just use the actual thing you like the sound of?
     
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  13. tfarny

    tfarny Friend of Leo's

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    First of all you need to rid yourself of the idea that you're going to get all this gear and then never buy anything ever again. In the future you are going to experience new things, and your tastes will change, and you'll want other stuff than you have now.

    Then you need to get rid of the idea that you need a bunch of expensive gear at all in order to sound good. Or that music is really good or bad because of tiny differences in tone. Was Hendrix great because of his "tone?" Brian May? Andy Summers? Is anyone?

    I go back and forth about tube amps versus solid state / modeling too, but I'm trying to focus my energies on playing better and better every day.

    Hope that doesn't come across as jerky, I know it might but it's intended to be helpful. Good luck!
     
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  14. JL_LI

    JL_LI Friend of Leo's

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    Crazy drew,
    It's not that modeling technology is inferior as it is that modeling is only an emulator of the real thing. Find an amp you can love. It will always be better than the copy. Then when you shop for pedals, they'll be pedals that work well to give you the sound you're looking for, not some electrical engineer's best approximation. Also, a good amp doesn't have to be expensive. VOx AC10 is a good starting point if you're pressed for cash. AC15 or Fender Princeton Reverb do more for some more money. You may consider starting used and trading up down the road.
     
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  15. Jules78

    Jules78 Tele-Holic

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    Technology is always improving and they market those improvements to sell the new version. You will always think that the newest kemper/fractal is now better than what you had before. So buy an amp and own the real thing. They hold their value far better especially if you buy used. Ive used bias. It gets awesome sounds, but Ive not been able to get it to sound natural. It is really hard to find that spot where it isnt under processed or over processed. Its like a tv that either gives you a black and white picture or so much color that it looks fake.

    This was recorded with bias:


    The very beginning is an effectrode tube vibe, boss dd and an effectrode comp. Easily $1,000 worth of pedals. That is fed in to a hiwatt 103 sim. The drums come in and its now bias giving me the effects and the amp sim all downloaded from someones David Gilmour setting. The solo is someone's santana setting. It sounds good, but fake. The immediacy of a direct connection to the computer is there at times and it also sounds really distant too. Its hard to describe, but it is not natural. I havent used axe or kemper but its all the same type of modeling.
     
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  16. CrazyDrew6

    CrazyDrew6 TDPRI Member

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    Cost
     
  17. CrazyDrew6

    CrazyDrew6 TDPRI Member

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    Ok. I’ll get the real thing, I don’t want a copy.
     
  18. LooseJack

    LooseJack Tele-Meister

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    Title: "Don't need a lot of effects"
    Contents: Lists 4 amps and10 effects

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. foundjoe

    foundjoe Tele-Holic

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    There are different reasons for wanting separate stomp boxes or amps that a modeler won't be satisfying. For what you say you want, the Headrush might be overkill in terms of price and options. Stick with your amp and get a Boss ME 80, which should be able to give you all the effects options you listed, plus basic amp modeling. You'd have money leftover to buy a couple of individual pedals to see how you like stomp boxes vs a multifx unit. Or you could get a Fender Mustang III with the four-botton switch, which would be another solid way to try amp and stompbox modeling in a simple set-up at a much more affordable price.
     
  20. Allthesound

    Allthesound Tele-Afflicted

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    Dumped my Mesa Mark V , 78' Marshall JMP 50 and pedal board and bought a Helix Floor and a pair of Matrix Q12 FRFR speakers. Best move i ever made. I still have a Marshall JVM215c and a Orange Dual terror that are getting sold soon because they are just collecting dust. YMMV
     
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