Don’t like my jumbo frets-file down or replace?

[blackieNYC]

I have a gorgeous roasted 16” Warmoth neck with 6100 frets, I leveled and crowned them, and I’m having issues with intonation on the lower chords. Nut height and action measure just like my other guitars, but they all have smaller frets. Some say get used to it, some say replace the frets, but I think I’d like to file them down. I’m sure it will take a lot of work. I’m happy how my fret work came out on the neck otherwise. Any thoughts on this?

 

[mandoloony]

Low/wide frets feel noticeably different from low/narrow frets, but intonation issues are typically related to height alone. You can probably fix the issue with a lot of filing (I'm not going to touch on technique changes) but you may not like the way it plays for new/different reasons.

 

[schmee]

I have a gorgeous roasted 16” Warmoth neck with 6100 frets, I leveled and crowned them, and I’m having issues with intonation on the lower chords. Nut height and action measure just like my other guitars, but they all have smaller frets. Some say get used to it, some say replace the frets, but I think I’d like to file them down. I’m sure it will take a lot of work. I’m happy how my fret work came out on the neck otherwise. Any thoughts on this?

It's the height that's a problem, not so much the width. Just sell it to someone who like those huge frets and order another one. Or refret it, but if you dont do that yourself it's more than a new neck now days.

They are very tall as well as very wide. Crowning after removing that much will be a lot of work also.

 

[Freeman Keller]

I don't think you wil be happy trying to file or sand the fretst to make them lower, but try anyway. You can always pull 'em if you don't like how they come out. Personallty I wouldn' even try - if it was my board I'd just pull 'em and put in what I wanted. However I do a lot of refrets and I'm pretty good at it - if this was a first for me I'd consider getting the neck I wanted.

 

[jrblue]

Messing with the frets won't intonate your guitar. I'd find out what's wrong before doing anything with the frets. (With new necks, it's almost always a matter of nut slots not being deep enough, forcing the player to have to press down in the lower positions, sharping the note.)

While I think that you will get a good result taking your frets lower only if you have genuinely sound tech skills, if you do know how to do that job, it could work. You need to be able to both achieve a consistent lowering across the entire span of the neck -- not simple -- and to do new crowns as well. Normally, I'd say to just fond a great tech and pick the exact frets you want, and that may be all for the best, but I got an older CS Strat last year, with a wonderful John Cruz neck, and it has been heavily played as befits a great guitar. Thing is, all the frets (jumbos) have been quite worn, but also the guitar's owner had them all leveled and crowned before being put on sale, and the result is ridiculously fine. I know everyone loves their own guitar, but I think I'm being objective in saying that the combo of slight lowering of the frets overall (wear, leveling) and an excellent job of crowning produced an uncommonly high level of playability -- fast, low, and wonderfully clean. So it's possible. Can you do this quality of work?

 

[robt57]

Yeah, rule out heavier/ish string ga. with nut cut for lighter ga strings...

 

[Boreas]

If you did a good job of centering the crowns, I don't understand the intonation problem on just a small part of the neck. Yes, you can pull notes sharp with tall frets, but why just in that area? Do you use a ton of finger pressure when playing? Are you using extremely light strings? Do the notes intonate correctly if you use a light touch? If someone else plays it, does the same thing happen?

My suspicion is that the frets may not have enough of a crown. If you take much off the very top of a wide fret, you generally have to take a significant amount off of the shoulder to get a good crown. If the frets are too flat on top, that can cause issues.

 

[robt57]

Play a scalloped neck with 9s, you should cure yourself of fingering sharp on tall frets.

 

[redhouse_ca]

I have a gorgeous roasted 16” Warmoth neck with 6100 frets, I leveled and crowned them, and I’m having issues with intonation on the lower chords. Nut height and action measure just like my other guitars, but they all have smaller frets. Some say get used to it, some say replace the frets, but I think I’d like to file them down. I’m sure it will take a lot of work. I’m happy how my fret work came out on the neck otherwise. Any thoughts on this?

It took me a really long time (20 years or so) to get used to jumbo on my American standard. I think my playing changes or something cuz now I really like them.

Probably not a helpful comment but adjust figured I'd share.

 

[blackieNYC]

Thanks for the responses! I should offer you folks some measurements. With the string open, my first and second fret measure a height of .059”above the fretboard. What do you think the under-string-to fretboard clearance should be, measured right at the nut? I’m measuring .071 (again, with the string -low E, open). This leaves the clearance above the first fret at .012. Should I take the nut slot down a little lower?
Or tell me what measurements you’d like to see.

 

[Freeman Keller]

I use two tests for nut slot depth - on most guitars for most players first fret action of 0.012 or 14 on the high E rising to 0.016 0r 18 on the low will give a nice "medium low" action. I also fret each string at the third fret (which will also back fret it at the second) and I want to see a tiny gap at the first fret, maybe two or three thousands. I don't measure anything to the fretboard, and the assumption is the frets are perfectly leveled and crowned and that the relief is somewhere around 5 thousands.

Note that Fender's factory specs are 0.020 first fret clearance at both E's and 0.012 relief.

 

[blackieNYC]

Thanks Freeman. I think you recommended the Melvyn Hiscock book some time ago. With a capo between 2 and 3, I have a clearance of .009 on the low E and .003 on the high E. So maybe the larger strings could be slotted more deeply.
And those fender specs are with the string open/not fretted?

 

[Freeman Keller]

Hiscock does not go into setups in detail, for that I recommentdErlewine's book on repairs. That was where I got the Fender specs. The important thing about the back fret clearance is to have some - it doesn't take much but if you have none its almost sure to buzz. The actual measured values come from a guy named Bryan Kimsey - he has set up a couple of my old Martins and I liked them so much that I adopted his specs and it seems to work well

 

[ChicknPickn]

You can take a lot of meat off the frets in short order by using a radius block and 200-grit Stik-It. Be darned sure you use the right radius.

 

[tele_jas]

I'd file them first! I recently had a fret job done from a reputable, local guy and it has turned into a nightmare!

I've taken it back to him 5 times since September to fix uneven frets and fret spouts. It still has dead spots while playing without an amp, but not noticeable through my amp, so I think I'm going to not take it back to him any more and save up for the "laser fret level and plek" machine at the music store ($250).

 

[TommyGunz]

I have a gorgeous roasted 16” Warmoth neck with 6100 frets, I leveled and crowned them, and I’m having issues with intonation on the lower chords. Nut height and action measure just like my other guitars, but they all have smaller frets. Some say get used to it, some say replace the frets, but I think I’d like to file them down. I’m sure it will take a lot of work. I’m happy how my fret work came out on the neck otherwise. Any thoughts on this?

Assuming your nut heights are correct, then you'll need to adjust your fretting pressure on the strings. It's definitely easier to go sharp with the taller frets. Playing with a lighter feel is better for technique as it simply uses less energy.

 

[dlsnyd2003]

I use two tests for nut slot depth - on most guitars for most players first fret action of 0.012 or 14 on the high E rising to 0.016 0r 18 on the low will give a nice "medium low" action. I also fret each string at the third fret (which will also back fret it at the second) and I want to see a tiny gap at the first fret, maybe two or three thousands. I don't measure anything to the fretboard, and the assumption is the frets are perfectly leveled and crowned and that the relief is somewhere around 5 thousands.

Note that Fender's factory specs are 0.020 first fret clearance at both E's and 0.012 relief.

Sir,
I have switched over to electric in the last year or so. I never really noticed that I was pulling notes sharp until recently. If I dont pull hard to the board they are true on the tuner but if i crank down to the fret board they sharp. Is that the tall fret alone or is it a tall nut? How to know the difference. It seams the higher up the neck the less of a problem it is. That leads me to a nut issue is my thinking. Please point me in the right direction.

 

[Antoon]

Had my guitar 'plekked' for that reason (frets too high). It took a fair amount off the fret height and crowned them, all in one go. I want the flesh of my fingers touch the wood when I fret a note, or they slip away too easily.

 

[robt57]

I want the flesh of my fingers touch the wood when I fret a note, or they slip away too easily.

The note, or your finger from string? [Or both??]

What's the going plek cost these days?

 

[Antoon]

I paid $100 or $200 for the plek, I think. That was for tough EVO fret wire.
Especially with hard frets (SS or EVO), strings tend to slip sideways over the fret, when notes are fretted. As soon as the frets were low enough that my fingers could touch the wood of the fretboard, I was okay. My fingers felt just enough friction and that also helped not to press the string too deep.