Does proper grammar matter at all anymore?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by DougM, Jul 21, 2019.

  1. bftfender

    bftfender Friend of Leo's

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    they draw on ya where to cut.
     
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  2. Skydog1010

    Skydog1010 Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

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    Wat dat?

    I question whether 90% of the people writing articles on the internet's news feed's are remotely qualified subject matter experts due to the content errors. Some are clearly writing about subject's they have no clue about.

    Now on to the grammar; what the heck have our institutions of remedial education been teaching these people. Some of these writer's post credentials of education that just couldn't be accurate, and if they are, they should sue for a full refund of their tuition.

    How much more embarrassing for the writers and editorial staff will this get?
     
  3. Skydog1010

    Skydog1010 Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

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    I will defend some of the errors to someone in a rush and the device's or application's "spell check" and factor in itty bitty touch screen keyboards being a contributor. Just had it happen to me, again. Lack of proof reading before hitting save, is my most frequent blunder.
     
  4. maxvintage

    maxvintage Friend of Leo's

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    There’s a good book on the history of grammar in the US: Kenneth Cmiel, democratic eloquence.

    There’s always been a tension between grammar as an aid to clear expression and grammar as a tool for class differentiation. Significant numbers of early grammarians worried that educating people in standard grammar would erase class distinctions. Others wanted it to do exactly that, make a clear path for advancement. Some people want universality; others revel in the pleasure of correcting people. A lot of the drive for standardized grammar had to do with the spread of market economies that put, say, the Louisiana fisherman in the same market as the Maine fisherman. Neither had trouble being understood at home.

    One basic point is that all grammar rules are always in flux. English grammar was not handed down on stone tablets.
     
  5. cottonmike

    cottonmike Tele-Meister

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    It matters when one is trying to win the love of a smart and beautiful lady.
     
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  6. Skydog1010

    Skydog1010 Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

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    The "boys" at Oxford have to be spending an enormous amount of time regaining their composure while they compile current editions of English language usage, origins and new "words." I would love to be a fly on the wall.
     
  7. JL_LI

    JL_LI Friend of Leo's

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    I'm glad I reread the OP and most of the posts that followed before writing mine. Most of the problems cited here could be avoided by employing the present tense of the fourth word in mine. Reread what you wrote before clicking "Post Reply". That said, rereading doesn't catch everything. I learned about the differences between spoken and written English in high school. If you don't think there's a difference, try writing dialog. To write songs you need to have developed facility in verse.

    Then there's dialect. When I was in school in the '50s and '60s, black kids were called lazy and caught flack for not speaking correct English. What they were speaking was perfectly correct dialect as opposed to standard English. Using standard English was every bit as much of a challenge for them as learning the English used in scientific publications was for me. I have no trouble writing in standard English, academic English, or technical (engineering) English... now. I still don't do well writing dialog or verse.

    The 21st century has brought another complication. On line English is a rapidly evolving form of the language with its own set of rules. It started with the texting acronym; IMO, OMG, WFT, etc. We see acronyms like those here all the time. They cut down on typing and allow posts on social media to fit with a text limit. Other shortcuts followed. Some of what looks like poor English has evolved from these shortcuts. Then there are the various forms of dyslexia. Some people do much better with the spoken than the written language. They often don't write very well so their normal written communication style looks like a Twitter post. The general manager of the unit I work in is like this. It doesn't reflect a lack of intelligence, just an inability to write well.

    Another problem of the internet age is auto text correction. I've been the victim here, especially when posting from my iPhone. I could go on and on but the fact is that most of what's being criticized are common errors or an awkward rephrasing of spoken language to written. If I'm writing anything for publication, either within the company or for a scientific journal, I not only reread and reedit what I write, I come back to it a few days later and do it again. As the writer, I often misread I what wrote as what I should have written. Coming back a few days later, the errors are glaring. There's no time or reason for such intensive review posting on a guitar forum.

    Believe me, folks. This is not criticism, just a reflection of personal experience.
     
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  8. raito

    raito Poster Extraordinaire

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    Some of my children's teachers have failed at being hardworking, dedicated, competent, or some combination. Then again, I knew that getting into the parent business would put a lot of the burden of their education on me.
     
  9. P Thought

    P Thought Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    In a former life I ran an advertising publication. It always boggled me how many times you could look right at an error and not see it, but the second you grabbed the first copy off the press. . . .
     
  10. PlainAllman

    PlainAllman Tele-Holic

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    Grammar is just a construct of a certain time period. That time period is passing on. This is just how things “progress”. People wrote differently 200 years ago and they will write differently 200 years from now. It may be lamentable to some and even celebrated by others. JMHO. YMMV. :D
     
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  11. Doctorx33

    Doctorx33 Tele-Afflicted

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    For heavens sake, let us sit upon the ground and talk about the death of grammar!
     
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  12. DrPepper

    DrPepper Tele-Afflicted

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    I feel smarter every day...


    LCD, lowest common denominator... we're getting there at an alarming rate...
     
  13. TheDams

    TheDams Tele-Meister

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    I am French, so English is not my first language, but it just comes down to the same thing... does a "proper" use of the language matter (by which I mean maybe not 100% perfect, but also not butchered) ?

    <personal experience> Absolutely ! (disclaimer: I am not talking about your personal emails or a forum here, but situations where it SHOULD matter...)

    Before moving to MN, I worked in France in HR for a quite big company.
    Part of my daily routine was going through resumes and cover letters from people applying for a job here. And we are talking probably 20 to 30 a day !
    I was basically the first to read them and do a first sorting, based on the qualifications needed for the job, AND also the quality of the said resumes and letters.

    Most of the jobs in that company were dealing with extensive e-mail communication with clients (BIG clients !), which mean that that communication MUST be/look/sound professional in every aspect, including a proper French (first of all, to show that you care, and not that you have done the job in a hurry before coffee break). Mind you, again I said "proper", not perfect (everybody does mistakes, including myself).

    Now, you have no idea of how many letters/resumes I have read that were just full of errors (spelling, grammar, conjugation, punctuation, etc.), every day !

    If you can not spend some time proof reading an application letter (and you should take that time), what about an email to an important client ?

    And don't get me into the actual handwriting ! in France, a lot of cover letters have to be handwritten (not the resumes)... it sounds totally "passé" (and maybe it is, but the fact is that it is like that), BUT, the handwriting can show a lot about a person.
    Sometimes, I had to spend 15 min (and with the help from colleagues) to read the letter, and be sure that I have read it right !


    Were those persons with poor usage of the language great people that would be a fit for the job ? probably... but these were the first steps of the application.
    If you cannot pass that first step, if I see a duo of letter/resume that looks like you did it in 5 min without obviously taking the time to have it corrected, you are out. Period. Harsh ? maybe... but unfortunately, that the way it is. What I see might be how you will do at work.

    </personal experience>
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  14. Recce

    Recce Friend of Leo's

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    I have a hard time with to and too. I try to see if also would work knowing then it is too. I am mostly successful. I think my written English is pretty good but by no means perfect.
     
  15. G.Rotten

    G.Rotten Tele-Holic

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    IMHO, it do.
     
  16. G.Rotten

    G.Rotten Tele-Holic

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    All aspects or every aspect.

    Lol. Couldn't stop myself from being Smrt-assy.
     
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  17. TheDams

    TheDams Tele-Meister

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    ( ;) English is not my first language, but thanks for correcting me, I learn everyday !)
     
  18. omahaaudio

    omahaaudio Friend of Leo's

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    You replied to someone that you ignore?
     
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  19. G.Rotten

    G.Rotten Tele-Holic

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    I know, I'm kidding. Your point came across perfectly.

    While grammar is important, it's also important to pay attention to the message.

    Ignoring an important message that was delivered less than perfect for the sake of being nit-picky is also a problem.

    Again in your situation (dealing with clients through written word) I would expect a higher level of professionalism.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  20. jackinjax

    jackinjax Friend of Leo's

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    I could care less. :rolleyes:
     
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