Does Learning Jazz Melodies without Understanding the Theory Teach Me Anything?

[58Bassman]

Another pedagogy question with a little (probably too much) background:

I've been working on tons of TrueFire lessons since being off work with my hip replacement (I've got five more weeks before I return to work). One of the things I've been working on is learning songs from Frank Vignola's Jazz Guitar Fakebook series.

I first learn the rhythm changes, beginning with Frank's suggested comping approaches, but eventually learning the songs well enough that I can grab the appropriate chords in any position, up and down the neck. There's obvious benefit to this approach: I'm learning new chord shapes and extensions, and I'm able to use those ideas in other tunes.

After mastering the rhythm (I'm up to six whole standards), I then learn his melodic suggestions as presented in his Jazz Guitar Fakebook: Soloing Editions. As well as getting the licks under my belt, I also listen to his explanations. I've learned four of his melodies so far, and I'm currently about halfway through his rendition of Blue Bossa.

These solos are TONS of fun to play, and I'm not really looking for an excuse to change my approach whatsoever, but I am curious to hear from some of you guys and gals with jazz chops. Am I really getting anything from learning these melodies note-for-note that will eventually translate into a more generalized ability to solo over jazz changes?

Will learning 30 or 50 of Frank's suggested melodies eventually just put chops in my fingers, in the same way that learning a hundred blues leads has led me to be a somewhat competent blues soloist?

Putting chops in your fingers also puts chops in your mind- playing music that's unfamiliar causes the player to hunt for the notes and in that process, it teaches where the notes are on the instrument, on command, and that's invaluable. Ever hear or read a musician say "Learn everything, then forget it and just play"?

 

[58Bassman]

No modes, no scales, no theory makes no sense. I don’t even know what “head knowledge” is. Where else would you keep it?

Music theory doesn’t tell you what to do, it tells you what you did. This provides a context so when faced with the same situation again, you have a solution. Of course you can play totally by ear. You don’t even need to know the notes on your guitar. But it would be like trying to drive from Key West to Portland without a map. Sure you’d get there eventually, but it would take you exponentially longer.

As far as playing, of course you have to play to learn. I’ve never heard anyone suggest that you can learn to play guitar from a book without actually playing the guitar. It’s not either/or. You take your knowledge, apply it to your playing through practice.

I’ve been playing for over 50 years and I’ll never understand where the distain for learning comes from. The arts are the only fields where some people consider ignorance an advantage.

It’s ALWAYS better to know what you are doing.

But any repetition helps with muscle memory and guitar requires a great degree of that. It's the difference between never having played scales, chords & arpeggios to mastery of them. The beginner can't do it and someone who has played for a long time doesn't need to think about it.

Sometimes, thinking while making music gets in the way of the music. I had a teacher who KNEW how every note he played fit into the chords, etc and he used flute & violin music to work on his sight reading, arranged for small groups, big bands and pit orchestra yet, listening to his solos was not great- very technical and not interesting. I, OTOH, didn't have the background or music education and had been learning by ear, so I played what sounded good to me, at whatever level possible at the time. He liked what I played, but wanted me to know why I should play something from the technical side. It frustrated him greatly, but the fact remained, he did like what I played. I took a Summer off from lessons and when we re-started, I noticed a huge change in his soloing- they were much more melodic and interesting. I commented on this and he admitted that he'd taken an ear-training class over the Summer. He had gone to the teacher of that class before and was asked "Why are you here? I can't teach you very much" because he already had a degree in music, but the melodic sense really wasn't there until the ear training.

I can't understand why someone would be resistant to learning new things. It's as if some people don't have any curiosity.