Do you think Chinese made Knockoffs will devalue actual real deal instruments?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Kloun, May 7, 2021.

  1. Kloun

    Kloun Tele-Holic

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    I'm not talking about Squiers or Epiphones. I'm talking about the fake Fenders and Gibsons on DHgate or Alibaba. Some of them are not that convincing, but I think that the Chinese will be improving quality. I already see them doing Fender "custom shop" relics, Gibson Zakk Wilde Les Pauls, etc. For me, I'm a vintage guy. A part of the reason is that it is very difficult to fake legitimate aging. I don't know how comfortable I would be in buying a new guitar with the slew of knockoffs available.
     
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  2. Hiker

    Hiker Poster Extraordinaire

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    If we as observers or consumers accept this fake culture, we have contributed to a growing problem. My suggestion is to never embrace/ accept the idea, or the product(s).

    One fundamental question is acceptance or rejection, and devaluing would hopefully never be an issue beyond current levels, and likely isn't a significant prob. at this point in time, or is it? :eek:
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
  3. aging_rocker

    aging_rocker Friend of Leo's

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    Nope.
     
  4. Ed Driscoll

    Ed Driscoll Tele-Afflicted

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    "It seems then, that the expression 'copyright infringement' doesn't translate terribly well into Mandarin:"

     
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  5. KATT

    KATT Tele-Meister

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    I doubt the counterfeits will have an effect on the value of the guitars they are imitating. I doubt the people that buy them were ever in the market to buy the real thing at twenty time the cost, then decided that the counterfeit was just as good.

    The impact they will have (apart from the obvious of someone trying to defraud by passing a counterfeit off as real) is more likely to be on the Squier and Epiphone prices as they are nearer the price point of the fakes.

    I don't think we're really seeing that though as there's a certain person who wants a poorly made guitar that has not been through and quality control just so they can have a fake badge on a headstock. I've only ever played one fake and the person who owned it said "it's as good as the real thing". I tried it and it was dreadful... which was a good match for his guitar playing.
     
  6. Telekarster

    Telekarster Tele-Afflicted

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    Nope, I don't think so. There's so substitute for the real thing, regardless of how hard they try to copy. Having said that, on the flip side, one must be oh so cautious out there when shopping for vintage... especially online. That's where the real concern is IMO.
     
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  7. dlew919

    dlew919 Doctor of Teleocity

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    I’m on the no camp. An American made fender will always be worth more than a made in Indonesia squier even if the two are of equal quality. Cache, nostalgia and ‘mojo’ bs. So buy up those overpriced and I’ll make a good living from cheaper instruments.
     
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  8. Tonetele

    Tonetele Poster Extraordinaire

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    Can't talk about the Chinese - I'm Australian.
    Read the news and you'll understand my silence.
     
  9. Shango66

    Shango66 Friend of Leo's

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    Not Guitars.
    Yes to Watches Handbags etc. there’s zero provenance in owning a luxury label item and having folks doubt it and ask if it’s a copy.
     
  10. NorthenLights

    NorthenLights Tele-Meister

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    The interesting question is, when Fender and Gibson have both been bought up by chinese owners, the custom shops moved to the eastman factory and all the vintage instruments are owned by chinese collectors, what will happen to the value if current MIA instruments.
     
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  11. loopfinding

    loopfinding Friend of Leo's

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    i don't think fake watches have devalued high end watches. a real rolex, or breitling, or omega or whatever is still worth money, is difficult to make, and still bought/traded by those seeking the real thing. it's a specialty/niche item. the same can be said of guitars. if watches are being "devalued," then it just means they've become less of a general public item, and more of a specialty. so be it.

    now some sunglasses, or a handbag, of course - why would someone pay top dollar when it's made out of the same exact stuff, by the same overseas contractors? the difference between the real and fake is literally just branding and distribution, they're lowest tier common mass produced items. because there is no functional difference nor real "provenance," there's absolutely no incentive to buy the real thing.

    regardless, did ibanez, greco, or burny kill or devalue the gibson les paul? absolutely not (and they were a hell of a lot better than chibsons).
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
  12. Cyberi4n

    Cyberi4n Tele-Meister

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    For me I think a bigger issue will be availability on the second hand market. As more and more sales are conducted online without ever seeing the instrument to begin with, it’s going to be harder and harder to sell your ‘legit’ instrument unless you sell it to a ‘dealer’ and accept a lower value, simply because more and more people will be wary of fakes and will want a cast iron guarantee that what they’re buying is genuine.

    I was in the market for a s/h Les Paul earlier this year, and was already considering my purchase options. 5 years ago I would have been happy to buy online unseen (and in fact DID buy two US PRS CU24 from eBay), but I’m now more wary of fakes and would probably only spend serious money at a store or reputable used guitar dealer.

    As it turns out I decided not to spend and bought a couple of Epiphones instead.
     
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  13. 53Strat

    53Strat Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    Are you for real?

    This little, insignificant squabble involving our country and China is never going to impact on the world and there is no news about it in the USA.
     
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  14. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Poster Extraordinaire

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    No.
     
  15. Peegoo

    Peegoo Poster Extraordinaire

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    One of the things you get when buying The Genuine Article is a company that backs their product.

    Nobody turns out perfect products 100% of the time, and when things go wrong you have someone to call. I did just that with a Gibson ES339 and they took very good care of me.

    Buying stuff from Alibaba is like rubbing a lamp and expecting a genie to appear.
     
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  16. Alter

    Alter Tele-Meister

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    It does devalue selling in the used market. Meaning that, with all these counterfeit and partcasters going around, it's become really difficult (if not impossible) to be sure of what one is actually buying. So you have to take the risk into account when looking at used stuff.
     
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  17. Tele-friend

    Tele-friend Tele-Meister

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    Short answer: No.

    Long answer: Fender and Gibson guitars (that are built in USA) will always have high resale values, especially the vintage ones. We can assume that even a Tele from 1994 in really good shape could also be regarded as a vintage guitar someday (lets say in 2094). Prices of this vintage guitars will eventually increase as time goes on (like prices of vintage cars etc.). Let’s assume about 2% increase every year in average. But this of course will mean that there will be even more counterfeits on the market as time goes on. Like it has been said before in this thread, the most important thing will be to make sure that you are buying an original guitar, not a fake one. This means that people who can identify a faked guitar will be really valuable. Maybe someday somebody will even have a job as a “vintage guitars expert” and will be making a living out of it.
     
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  18. Tonetele

    Tonetele Poster Extraordinaire

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    You obviously do not read the correct newspapers. If you did you would understand my statement.
    Homework!
     
  19. That Cal Webway

    That Cal Webway Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    No
     
  20. notmyusualuserid

    notmyusualuserid Friend of Leo's

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    Well I thought this might get political...
     
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