Do You Think a Mid Control is Necessary?

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Dan_Pomykalski, Sep 29, 2020.

  1. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

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    Not only does it come after a few more triode stages in Bassmans and Marshalls, but it also comes after a cathode follower stage, which drives the tone circuitry with low impedance. The BF/SF stuff is plate loaded, which can kind of skew the intended results.

    Interesting aside (IMO) regarding plate loaded tone stacks - it's my understanding that you have to basically look at the slope resistor as if it's in parallel with your plate resistance. So in the case of folks who try to 'Marshall'ize' a BF/SF tone stack, they're getting it wrong by changing the slope resistor, since you've actually got ~50K if using the original BF/SF value of 100K for the slope resistor itself. Point being that changing it to 56K, like in the Bassman, doesn't really work the same way.

    ...And that's why the Trainwreck stuff probably kept the BF/Fender slope resistor of 100K, despite swapping out the caps and pots for Marshall'ish values (Trainwreck amps all had plate loaded tone stacks, in between V1A and V1B, TTBOMK).
     
  2. qpond

    qpond TDPRI Member

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    Mid control, tone control, what is all this, I play a gain monster 5f1 champ, passive tone controls suck gain , Boo Hoo
     
  3. El Tele Lobo

    El Tele Lobo Poster Extraordinaire

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    I use a Champ (5F1) clone with a 12" speaker. It's my all-time favorite amp. So, I'm probably the wrong guy to ask...
     
  4. Karl Beach

    Karl Beach TDPRI Member

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  5. dankilling

    dankilling Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Depends on the tonestack itself - a Braxandall tone stack can both scoop and emphasize the mids........
     
  6. goodguy

    goodguy Tele-Meister

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    Get the amp you like + an EQ pedal if necessary.
     
  7. Dan_Pomykalski

    Dan_Pomykalski Tele-Meister

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    Did you read any of the post or replies, or just the title... super helpful contribution either way...
     
  8. blue metalflake

    blue metalflake Doctor of Teleocity

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    My main amp for more than 40 years is a Pro Reverb - no mid control.
    Never had a problem producing the sound I wanted
     
  9. Chedmus

    Chedmus TDPRI Member

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    I play a 2012 American Standard Tele and a HotRails loaded 83 Jv Strat through a Victory V50.
    I'd be lost without the mid control.
    12o'clock for Tele, 10 o'clock for Strat.
    Depending on amp , the eq pots are not independent. I.e. changes in the mid pot will affect the frequency at which the bass and treble pots work.
    How hard your pushing the preamp also makes a difference, as sound becomes thicker when driven harder. Some Mid cut can be handy.
    T
     
  10. Terrygh1949

    Terrygh1949 Tele-Meister

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    If the amp has it I use it. Sometimes it's the difference in getting a great sound. Definately not a deal breaker. I demoed a deluxe against a twin. Although not a real good a, b showdown the twin had a mid control. I would just as soon have it as not. I preferred the twin.
     
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  11. MLJ1

    MLJ1 TDPRI Member

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    upload_2020-10-2_6-10-1.png upload_2020-10-2_6-11-8.png
    Hi, FWIW, I build a lot of guitars for fun, to keep, to fix for others, or to sell. Whatever, just saying I've put together, or fixed, and soldered up a lot of electrics including Strats Teles, Gibsons PRS, you name it. That being said about mods and such..., I think you can learn to live with, or get a usable sound with whatever you have to work with. All things being equal, more options = more possibilities. But, it also becomes a huge distraction to just playing. So, of course I am rebuilding a Fender strat up (one I bought new) after repainting it in lacquer, and am putting all brand new electrics in it, including Fender Vintage noiseless pups, all new pots, switches caps resistors etc., and... a TBX midrange control from Fender. This combination is what is in one of the Clapton models. I am building a "Blackie" FWIW. Just 'cause I can. How will it sound, well, probably a lot like Clapton's strat lead tone from the 80's and 90's. Maybe, it is just an experiment. So, like I was saying, if you go down this path, it complicates and in some ways detracts from your playing time. My point is just that, if it's decent gear, you really can get a good sound with just your guitar, your amp, and your fingers. Like Frank said, "shut up and play yer guitar". :)

    upload_2020-10-2_6-10-1.png upload_2020-10-2_6-11-8.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
  12. greasamizer

    greasamizer Tele-Meister

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    This, to me, is one of those 'my dog can beat up your dog' kind of things. I have had enough amps in my life to form [the opinion] that says a mid control is about as useless as a pair of **** on a bull! Tone-shaping circuits are great-in a studio medium as they add colour to your signal by virtue of a lot more sophistication than three knobs on the face of an amp. With a low-pass filter/high-pass filter (bass and treble), you can pull up a wide enough tonality without going nutzo! Besides; why complicate the issue? If you are doing a gig, very few in that audience would be able to discriminate mids-unless they are Doberman Pincers!
     
  13. djhblues

    djhblues TDPRI Member

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    Agree that mid controls are very useful. I've always been a Fender guy (BF Vibrolux, '68 Deluxe Reverb Custom and '68 Princeton Custom Reverb. Both of the '68 have the Bassman tone stack in them that provides a much warmer sound that the reissues. I really like them. I also have a Dr Z Z-Plus Ultra Lite ( 15 watts 1x12) that has a mid control, as well as a foot switch to boost the amp outside the tone stack ( I also think there is a Post Phase Inverter in this) to give it that mid range bump. Gives me the Fender tone I like, with an edge for sure.
     
  14. jdm61

    jdm61 Tele-Holic

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    I was going to axe how many mid knobs a Tweed Deluxe has? ;)
     
  15. Jay Jernigan

    Jay Jernigan Tele-Afflicted

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    Used a Twin for years. It had a middle control which usually kept in the, er, middle.
    Then a BF Bassman for a good while. No mid control, usually kept treble and bass, both, around 3. It was a rock band, overdrive was in a good place.
    A few years ago I replaced the 6.8 resistor on a BFDR with a 10. Not a massive change, but noticable if you a/b the channels.
    I have had a few other amps with mid controls or boosts, and it depends on the amp and guitar, but middle in the middle is always a starting point. With el84 amps I usually cut the highs and boost the lows, mid control notwithstanding.
     
  16. Ricky D.

    Ricky D. Doctor of Teleocity

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    Just a volume control for each channel and a shared tone control. LOL

    To be honest, I do have a parametric EQ pedal I got back in 1985. I use it as a toy. It can emulate a BF Fender mid-scoopy frequency response if I want that, or simulate humbucker tones from my single coil pickups. Good fun.
     
  17. kilroy6262

    kilroy6262 TDPRI Member

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    Oh thank you for that. I've had an ongoing argument with a guitarist friend who feels mids are the enemy to good tone. Too much mid can sound awful, but mids are where the sweet spots lie. I so often see people setting eq's to the classic mid-scooped "smile", but I use an MXR M-108 in my chain and it frowns at me all night long. Well maybe not a frown, but my eq definitely has resting ***** face.
     
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  18. Jakedog

    Jakedog Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Electric guitar lives and breathes in the mid range. It can sound cool to scoop it out in your living room or garage. But in a mix it’s essential. Bass and kick eat up all the low band width, cymbals and snare eat up tons of highs. Guitars and vocals are mid-voiced instruments. Scooping them out with every else going on on stage is a recipe for volume wars and arguments. Put em where they belong in the eq spectrum and everyone can hear them at reasonable volumes.

    And “resting b!+ch face eq” is fantastic. I’m totally stealing that term.
     
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  19. scooteraz

    scooteraz Friend of Leo's

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    I have an amp without tone controls that I like just fine, and I have one that has Treble, Mid, Bass, presence and then a switchable graphic equalizer. I like that one too. What is this “need” you speak of?
     
  20. ronmail65

    ronmail65 TDPRI Member

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    To me, 'Mid' is just as influential to my tone as Bass or Treble. I don't think I'd have an amp without it.
     
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