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Do You Think a Mid Control is Necessary?

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Dan_Pomykalski, Sep 29, 2020.

  1. Guitarteach

    Guitarteach Doctor of Teleocity

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    The graphic EQ on mesa Mark amps is very powerful, completely change the voice in a mix. .. most mids on tone-stacks don’t have close to the range to be really useful IME. The one on my JMP is subtle to the point of me not caring how it is set.
     
  2. JIMMY JAZZMAN

    JIMMY JAZZMAN Tele-Holic

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    I've found if you lower your mids or even zero it out all the way, you have plenty of voiceings
    left with treble and bass response. In a way, the mids get in the way, of producing more varied
    tones then actually incorporating them on you amp.
     
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  3. Old Deaf Roadie

    Old Deaf Roadie Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    First read of the title I thought was "mind control". Though not neccessary, that would surely be a luxury I would be interested in having. :lol:
     
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  4. JIMMY JAZZMAN

    JIMMY JAZZMAN Tele-Holic

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    Why shouldn't a guitar have a "scooped mids" switch. Say what?
     
  5. ping-ping-clicka

    ping-ping-clicka Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

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    I like having a graphic e.q. to "sculpt the tone ", I also have a booster T.C Electronic Spark the can be used to boost the treble like an old Rangemaster boost. My Keely Compression pedal also has a very nice tone control marked tone.
    weasel 3.jpg
     
  6. wulfenganck

    wulfenganck Tele-Afflicted

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    Yes for me. But then I prefer a sound with some certain type of treble, but also with a solid punch, so I'm not after a pure Fender tone.
    My main amp is a Hughes & Kettner Edition Tube 25th Anniversary with bass, mids, treble eq for both channels. My setting is bass at 13.00, mid around 14.30, treble around 11.00. I sometimes slightly change bass or treble, due to the dimensions of the stage and room we're playing, but I rarely touch the mids.
    If you have an interactive treble/bass control that also features mids by rolling back treble and bass, it might be different. But my amp doesn't do that to much extant. But with that setup and my main guitar with a P90 in neck and a humbucker in bridge position, I get exactly the sound I want.
    Didn't work with the Fenders I tried - but although not with the Marshalls, Engl or Laneys I tried. The EQs on those obviously feature slightly different frequency-ranges. I always felt I had to get more volume to cut through.
     
  7. Festofish

    Festofish Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    I certainly balk at the lack of a mid knob and would prefer two! Uppers and lowers.
     
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  8. Engine Swap

    Engine Swap Tele-Afflicted

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    just glanced at the thread title before coffee and read it as: "Do you think mind control is necessary?" :lol:
     
  9. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

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    On BF/SF Fenders with adjustable mids, it's usually variable resistance between the mid cap and ground. So turning the mid knob to zero sends your entire signal to ground. So on the BF/SF amps with 'fixed mids,' there's literally just a resistor in place of a variable resistor.

    ...In the circuit path, the bass and treble are 'stacked on top' like layers of a cake. So the midrange part of the circuitry is the 'primary path,' if that makes sense.

    With the tweed Bassman, many Marshalls, and the numerous amps that are at least partially derived from them, the mid control is wired as a 'divider' - it varies the amount of signal that either gets passed on, or is routed to ground. This is one of the main reasons that the BF/SF stuff vs. Bassman/Marshall/etc. behave differently when the mid control is set to zero.

    ...So if you were to replace the mid pot in a Bassman, you'd need two fixed resistors to replicate where the pot is set, with a total resistance equaling 25K. So you might have like 12K to ground, and 13K in the signal path. Or 20K to ground and 5K in the signal path, or the inverse of that.

    Also, the mid pot in Bassmans, Marshalls, etc. is usually ~25K, whereas in BF/SF Fenders that have one, it's only 10K. This is part of the reason that you can get more mids, and gain, out of them (e.g. more resistance between the mid cap and ground means more signal gets passed thru the circuit).

    The component values of the tone circuits in BF/SF Fenders also have their frequencies set at different points, especially the midrange, which typically has a lower 'highpass filter cutoff frequency,' vs. other amps. Point being that even if you put a 25K mid pot in a BF/SF Fender but kept all the other component values the same, you'd be emphasizing the lower mids vs. the 'true mids.'
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2020
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  10. G.Rotten

    G.Rotten Tele-Afflicted

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    I don't need turn signals for my car. I like the simplicity of activating a left or right kill switch then tapping my brakes repeatedly.

    It really cleans up the look of the steering column.

    The OP has asked a personal preference question. The answer to that question is not debatable. It's personal preference.

    If I want to adjust the level of Mids it's my personal preference to use a Mid control knob.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2020
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  11. Dan_Pomykalski

    Dan_Pomykalski Tele-Meister

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    What is this, a weasel? Mink?
    Also, why?
     
  12. Dan_Pomykalski

    Dan_Pomykalski Tele-Meister

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    I think this may be because the higher the mid control, the less effective the bass and treble controls are.
     
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  13. Dan_Pomykalski

    Dan_Pomykalski Tele-Meister

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    Turn signals and a mid pot aren’t even in the same zip code...

    Also, I’m not trying to get a definite answer. I was just wondering why some people would think a mid control is necessary in an amp that already has scooped mids, and a fixed mid resistor that is already close to max.
     
  14. Dan_Pomykalski

    Dan_Pomykalski Tele-Meister

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    The tone stack in Bassmans and Marshalls also comes later, after a coupling cap or two. I think this is why there are more mids, but the tone controls are still fairly effective in those circuits. I felt a 25k mid resistor in my amp with a BF tone stack rendered the bass and treble controls pretty much useless.
     
  15. Dan_Pomykalski

    Dan_Pomykalski Tele-Meister

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    I would actually be a fan of this too. I’ve wanted to have a .047 and .022 mid cap in a BF tone stack, but I haven’t figured out how to do it yet.
     
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  16. Dan_Pomykalski

    Dan_Pomykalski Tele-Meister

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    They kind of do depending on the guitar/bass.
     
  17. hepular

    hepular Tele-Holic

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    yep. tele pickups need different eq than do prs humbuckers, ime
     
  18. Dan_Pomykalski

    Dan_Pomykalski Tele-Meister

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    Are the graphic eqs on Mesas active? My two EQ pedals are active and could sculpt tone out of marble.
     
  19. G.Rotten

    G.Rotten Tele-Afflicted

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    Both exist to perform a specific function. Some people use them, some people don't.
     
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  20. aeyeq

    aeyeq Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    I like clean so three knobs (clean channel) and the truth.
     
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