Do you resist the urge to upgrade your modeler when a new one comes out?

[telemnemonics]

Nope, my 20yo Pod is still holding down some unloved pedals safely in a box.
Looked in there the other day hunting for one of my old BK Butler Tube Drivers.

 

[dspellman1]

Being that modelers are basically computers, and by their nature are improving constantly, the same "keeping up with the other guys" thing happens here as well.

The Line 6 HD500 was introduced in 2010. The Helix Floor in 2015. It's 2022. I think I bought each of them about 2 years after their respective introductions. Two modelers in a decade.

I bought an iPhone 5S when it came out. At the point where it wouldn't accept the current iOS, I bought an iPhone X and still have it.

I bought the first iPad when it came out. This past year I replaced it with a new iPad Pro 12.9.

I don't normally keep up with the other guys.

 

[telemnemonics]

I have a Line 6 Flextone II and a similar model of Pod that sound absolutely fantastic.

I also have a Flextone III and a Pod XT that don't sound nearly as good. The newer models might very well be more realistic, but they aren't nearly as good.

So, lesson learned, I'm sticking with gear that sounds great, even if it is last gen.

So vintage modelers have better toanz?

 

[unixfish]

My only amp is a Mustang III I bought in 2016. My first modeller was a Mustang III I bought in 2016. Sooooooo, it looks like I've resisted the urge so far.

 

[drmordo]

So vintage modelers have better toanz?

That's actually an interesting question. I think the Flextone II series presets sounded great. Usually I make a minor tweak to the gain and it's dialed in. The Flextone III series can sound good, but I have to really dig in because the presets generally suck.

That said, the FIII series all seem lower gain than the FII series. I don't know why, but it seems like all my guitars are turned down to 6 thru the FIII.

I haven't tried any of the post Flextone series, so I can't comment on them.

 

[telemnemonics]

That's actually an interesting question. I think the Flextone II series presets sounded great. Usually I make a minor tweak to the gain and it's dialed in. The Flextone III series can sound good, but I have to really dig in because the presets generally suck.

That said, the FIII series all seem lower gain than the FII series. I don't know why, but it seems like all my guitars are turned down to 6 thru the FIII.

I haven't tried any of the post Flextone series, so I can't comment on them.

I have to wonder how much the average computer buyer growing more and more tech savvy influences designers tendency to choose max range over ease of use?

I keep seeing this in (my 20 years experience with) Apple design where children who grew up with an ipad as babysitter are now the larger customer base and prefer complex user interfaces.
Or to them not so much complex as based on the new computer intuition they have deep in their DNA.

We seem to know that modeler presets are not really supposed to be used? But do we all accept the (increasing) amount of effort required to dial in what we think are great sounds, as an acceptible tradeoff for more flexible and vast sound sculpting potential?

Im not sure the required effort is really growing, just a collection of my own observations and internet comments.

 

[drmordo]

I have to wonder how much the average computer buyer growing more and more tech savvy influences designers tendency to choose max range over ease of use?

I keep seeing this in (my 20 years experience with) Apple design where children who grew up with an ipad as babysitter are now the larger customer base and prefer complex user interfaces.
Or to them not so much complex as based on the new computer intuition they have deep in their DNA.

We seem to know that modeler presets are not really supposed to be used? But do we all accept the (increasing) amount of effort required to dial in what we think are great sounds, as an acceptible tradeoff for more flexible and vast sound sculpting potential?

Im not sure the required effort is really growing, just a collection of my own observations and internet comments.

Here's the thing with the Flextones - there no sacrifice involved. Both amps have EQ controls simulating the EQ sections of the modelled amp, so you could in theory dial in identical sounds from each amp.

I hadn't really though about it in these terms, but it's more of a framing issue than a flexibility issue.

The FII has a knob you spin to pick your model. You spin it to Brit Blues (the JTM-45 model), turn off the speaker emulation, and it sounds great.

The FIII also has that knob, but spin it to Plexi 45 (the new JTM-45 model), turn off the speaker emulation, and it sounds pretty 'meh'. However, if you have the optional pedalboard, the FIII also has "style" presets like "Start Me Up" "Cold Shot" and "Sultans of Swing" that emulate a rig and effects that are dialed into a specific and classic sound.

I suspect they spent a lot of time on the "style" presets (because they mostly sound pretty dang good) and far less time on the default presets you get from spinning the knob. This was obviously a dumb move on their part, because many (or most?) Flextone III owners won't get the optional pedalboard, and as a result they are stuck with a bunch of crappy amp presets. I find the "style" presets kind of annoying because I inevitably have to dial back the reverb and turn off whatever effects are on the preset. I also don't like to use the pedalboard every time I set up my amp.

I have never had my FII and FIII next to each other, but it would be pretty interesting to set them exactly the same and do a Pepsi challenge.

Anyways, I just ordered the second tube amp I have bought in over 20 years - a Marshall Origin 50. I mostly did it to keep me from buying a Bluesbreaker, which I have been gassing over lately. I'm hoping the $700 Origin will scratch the itch instead of splurging on a $2000+ 2x12 beast that I really don't need.

 

[Blrfl]

I keep seeing this in (my 20 years experience with) Apple design where children who grew up with an ipad as babysitter are now the larger customer base and prefer complex user interfaces.
Or to them not so much complex as based on the new computer intuition they have deep in their DNA.

It's not genetic. The young can soak that stuff up like sponges. I had no problem learning to use dial and push-button telephones; people in previous generations complained about how unnecessarily complicated they were.

This stuff is no different. People who grew up in an era when the state of the art was an amp with a handful of in knobs and maybe a pedal or two mastered that stuff and see what's new like the dashboard of the space shuttle. I know I'll get to that point sometime, but I'm determined to put it off as long as possible.

 

[BryMelvin]

I'm using a PC that I bought off a friend who builds gaming PCs, uses them until all the other guys have newer faster technology, then sells them to guys like me. He's always keeping up with the latest. I don't do gaming, but this PC is so overpowered for what I do that I'm never worried about it not being enough. I plan on keeping it until it no longer works and I can no longer repair it if that happens.

Being that modelers are basically computers, and by their nature are improving constantly, the same "keeping up with the other guys" thing happens here as well. I'm too broke (cheap) to take part in it; I have tones I like and I'll use my gear until it breaks. BUT, I understand there is also the intrigue of getting a better system with higher capabilities.

So, which group are you in?

I seldom use modeling I have a Digitech RP255 a few years old, and a ART midi processor ( I think z80 chip lol) that works just fine but you need to program it yourself.

I own vintage Carvin, Marshall and Fender amps and custom made copies so I seldom need them. Just a lot of storage space.

 

[Peegoo]

I use a POD HD that's 10 years old. It works perfectly for what I need.

I have zero interest in any new stuff.

 

[StrangerNY]

I bought my Mooer GE-300 nearly three years ago, and seeing as how it's pretty well built and still sounds really good to my ears, I figure I've got a few years left with it.

I chased the newest version with Line 6 stuff for a long time. I've still got the Flextone XL, kidney bean Pods v.1 and v.2, and an XT Live floor board. But they lost me when they released the HD-500, which I thought was terrible and sold it pretty much right away.

I know Line 6 has bounced back with the Helix line, but I'm all in on Mooer for the time being.

- D

 

[StrangerNY]

That's actually an interesting question. I think the Flextone II series presets sounded great. Usually I make a minor tweak to the gain and it's dialed in. The Flextone III series can sound good, but I have to really dig in because the presets generally suck.

That said, the FIII series all seem lower gain than the FII series. I don't know why, but it seems like all my guitars are turned down to 6 thru the FIII.

I haven't tried any of the post Flextone series, so I can't comment on them.

The Flextone XL presets were really good, and it's got sufficient headroom to avoid my guitar getting swallowed up in a band situation.

I still think that first version Pod brain offered some of the best models Line 6 ever produced.

I got a small Spyder combo in a deal for a guitar and I hated it. Everything sounded buzzy and brittle and I listed it on CL and it was out the door a week later.

- D

 

[tfarny]

I'm no early adopter but I don't expect the stuff to last 40 years. I guess I will use it (HX Stomp) until it breaks? Or there is a shiny new toy and I change my mind.

 

[burntfrijoles]

I have three modelers or modeler software plug-ins.
I won’t upgrade my Iridium. It’s not perfect but it’s simple and is close enough.
I have licenses for Amplitube and Bias FX but don’t have them installed. Needless to say they won’t be upgraded. I owned a Helix but got tired of tweaking, etc and could never get past what I called the”digital artifact” effect. I’ve come to the conclusion that my problems with modelers is user error. I just suck at dialing in satisfactory tones.
I actually get better results using the built in amp plug-ins native to Logic Pro X.
That said, I will buy one more modeler. I’m selling my SE PRRI (12” speaker) which I love and getting a Tone Master Deluxe Reverb. The PRRI is too loud fr my home use and the TMDR has an atennuator.
That’s it. Then (famous last words), I’m done.