Do repaired cracks make a guitar sound worse compared to unprepared cracks.

Discussion in 'Other Guitars, other instruments' started by Hugokildare, Aug 6, 2020.

  1. Hugokildare

    Hugokildare TDPRI Member

    Age:
    17
    Posts:
    50
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Location:
    London
    Hi I’ve recently handed in my 1948 lg1 to a luthier for getting some cracks fixed around The pick guard. My only concern is that considering the cleating could this cause the guitar to sound dull. Is this possible? thank you.
     
  2. corliss1

    corliss1 Friend of Leo's Platinum Supporter

    Posts:
    4,404
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Location:
    Lansing, MI
    If they are properly repaired you likely won't notice. If the repair person uses giant cleats and pounds of glue, that could be an issue, but a good repair you'll never notice.
     
  3. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    12,275
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2003
    Location:
    northwest
    You mean he's putting cleats behind the crack? yeah, that may deaden it a bit. Can they just be glued?
     
  4. unfamous

    unfamous Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    392
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2009
    Location:
    North Georgia
    No. Unsuitable repair for that trouble. Cleats are called for.
     
    teleplayr and LAPlayer like this.
  5. unfamous

    unfamous Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    392
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2009
    Location:
    North Georgia
    And if a small cleated crack makes a great deal of difference in the sound of your instrument, I'll eat my hat.
     
  6. Hugokildare

    Hugokildare TDPRI Member

    Age:
    17
    Posts:
    50
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Location:
    London
    T
    Thanks for the reassurance as you say they are small cracks and the luthier said they use very small cleats he’s been repairing guitars for 50 years. Nevertheless I will hold you to account on that promise and if it does change the tone I will expect to receive a video of you eating your hat.
     
  7. Switchy

    Switchy Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    50
    Posts:
    1,298
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2019
    Location:
    Arizona
    What was said previously sounds good. I've always believed that glue is stronger than wood, and a laminated piece of wood is stronger than a non-laminated piece of wood.
    I've even heard it mentioned that a multi-section body is more stable and has less warpage than a 2 section or 1 section body.

    But I'm not a wood engineer.
     
    Fretting out likes this.
  8. Stubee

    Stubee Doctor of Teleocity Gold Supporter

    Posts:
    10,669
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2007
    Location:
    Mid-Michigan
    I’ve had and have plenty of great sounding old guitars with cleated top cracks. Don’t worry about it at all, especially by the pickguard.
     
  9. Freeman Keller

    Freeman Keller Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    75
    Posts:
    4,549
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2018
    Location:
    Washington
    Cleating is a very common repair on cracked guitars, I do it frequently. Does it change the sound? You could argue that it does but you aren't going to hear it. Remember that an LG-1 is a fairly inexpensively built ladder braced guitar to start with - the braces are primarily there to keep the top from cracking and possibly to resist neck rotation a bit. This was not a lightly built fragile guitar, the cleats will not appreciably change the top mass.

    Your repair tech should use hide glue on this repair - the guitar was built with it and if you ever decide you don't like the cleats that would make them easily removable.

    I'm curious from your earlier post, did you ever determine if the neck angle was OK and do you need to do anything with the bridge? I posted some pictures of the LG-1 that I worked on, curious how bad yours really is.
     
    EsquireBoy and Hugokildare like this.
  10. 985plowboy

    985plowboy Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,269
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Location:
    South Louisiana
    What little bit you may lose in tone will be more than made up for in vibe.
     
  11. Hugokildare

    Hugokildare TDPRI Member

    Age:
    17
    Posts:
    50
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Location:
    London
    Thanks for the reassurance and advice. I took your advice and booked it in to a luthier I found the best one I could in London. When they looked over it they said the action is fine and it probably doesn’t need a neck reset yet, which I was joyous about and that the top warping was not a big problem and is quite common on old ladder braces guitars. They said they would give it a fret redress I think it’s called as some of the frets where buzzing aswell as some work on the bridge I was and still am quite skeptical about this though as the tech (not the main luthier said) they will probaly grind the bridge nut down a little. This scared me as I don’t know much but I do know break angle is important for tone. He reassured me they would do something I can’t remeber the name that will fix and retain and break angle problems. He also rather worringly said that these old shrinking pickguards wilol penalty shrink the minute they are taken off to fix the cracks. He’s sending it off to the main workshop and luthiers and couldn’t find any loose braces except a crack in one under the pickguard but also said it needs further inspection. I will get a call on Saturday from the main man giving me a quote on price and what he think should be done. Agian thank you for all the help you’ve offered I never imagined my first vintage guitar would be such a stressful situation. But at least I’ve learned a lot about what to look for if I I ever consider buying another.
     
    teleplayr likes this.
  12. LAPlayer

    LAPlayer Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    336
    Joined:
    May 13, 2020
    Location:
    LA / Denver
    Standard repair practice and it won't change anything but stabilize the cracks.
     
    Henley and teleplayr like this.
  13. Freeman Keller

    Freeman Keller Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    75
    Posts:
    4,549
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2018
    Location:
    Washington
    Thanks for the feedback, I've been wondering what happened with your old LG-1. Sounds like you have knowledgeable people working on it, that is good. I try to be aware of two things whenever I work on an old instrument - first, am I really the right person to be doing this and second, I want to be sure I am not doing something that will later be judged as wrong.

    Cleating cracks is normal repairs and will not devalue the guitar or significantly change its tone. Removing material from the bridge saddle is normal procedure to make the action better, within reason. If you have to remove too much material that becomes one of the signs that a reset is needed. Leveling and dressing frets, again, is normal maintenance, at some point they will need to be replaced, which again, is normal. The pick guard issue was something that I couldn't comment on without seeing, it sounds like your people know what they are doing there.

    I think you will enjoy your little LG when it is all finished. I have a couple of ladder braced guitars and I did play the one that crossed my bench before returning it - they have a distinctive sound that suits old timey and bluesy music perfectly. And add to the sound is the knowledge that you are playing an instrument that is over 70 years old, is still in pretty good shape and can still make music. Take care of it so it will last another 70.
     
    telemnemonics likes this.
  14. KC

    KC Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,185
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Location:
    Missoula, Montana
    My old lg-1 had a bunch of cleated top cracks and sounded great. When the pick guard fell off, though, the bozo that glued it back on used so much glue that it killed the volume. Beware!
     
  15. Hugokildare

    Hugokildare TDPRI Member

    Age:
    17
    Posts:
    50
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Location:
    London
     
  16. Hugokildare

    Hugokildare TDPRI Member

    Age:
    17
    Posts:
    50
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Location:
    London
    Hi just an update on my Lg1 this is the quote I got sent today. 11FD7D92-B539-41F5-AFDC-44E3D26C741A.png
     
    telemnemonics likes this.
  17. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    22,584
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    I saw a probably 200yo fiddle apart that had easily 20+ cleats under the top, and was the primary instrument of a famous player according to the luthier who was doing yet another repair.
    Seen many 150+ yo violins and they all have lots of cleats on a comparatively tiny soundboard.
    On a guitar, not an issue!
     
    Henley likes this.
  18. Nightclub Dwight

    Nightclub Dwight Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,453
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Should turn out just fine as long as your luthier isn't an unprepared crack.
     
  19. jayyj

    jayyj Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,347
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    That's a lot extra to spend on what was already a very high price for an LG1. I would be knocking on the dealer's door over that one.
     
  20. Hugokildare

    Hugokildare TDPRI Member

    Age:
    17
    Posts:
    50
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Location:
    London
    Yeah I was really pissed of to find all the stuff wrong with the guitar after buying it but. Luckily the guitar was bought as a birthday present in the end so I didn’t have to pay the initial cost so I don’t mind paying for repairs. Also I adore the guitar. Nevertheless I am angry at myself and the dealer. I’m angry at myself for being naive and not knowing about these issues before buying, and the dealer for ripping me of.
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.