mindlobster
Tele-Afflicted
The touring music pros I know, in a variety of genres, don’t fixate on gear as a rule - except maybe once a year when re vamping before the next tour or album.
Do other “artist’s”/creators of “art” fixate on the tools with which they create, as much as musicians (especially guitarists) do ?
- Thread starter Mike Eskimo
- Start date
Of course they do. You think PGA players think, talk and obsess about their clubs particularly drivers, putters and balls? The answer is, hell yes. And painters obsess about paper, brushes, colors, paints etc.. Gun owners are the same way, chefs etc. etc. etc. There's nothing different or special about guitar players.
Short on cash
Tele-Holic
My point.
LowCaster
Tele-Afflicted
I’m no Van Gogh but but I’ll take the risk to talk for the classic painters and sculptors. It’s different… The main tool is the hand. But yes, people can get obsessed about anything.
I can draw with a piece of burnt wood out of the fireplace, it’s just as fun as using a specialty charcoal or « fusain » or a pencil. Materials are important though, but they are both the tool and the product… A sculptor would chose his stone carefully. I’m very sensitive to the quality of the paper for a specific use. I have a favorite brand of China ink, but it’s not really more expensive than other. Same for pencils, brushes, paints. Some of these choices are similar to « gear » choices, others are more personnal.
I love to draw with a homemade bamboo dip pen (as Van Gogh did), it’s really just a piece of wood, but I equally love a 500$ Pelikan piston filler with a 18K gold nib... This one is the pen equivalent of a Gibson Les Paul Custom, just less expensive. So yes there are rabbit holes and possible tech discussion. And no, when the work is finished you can’t tell if it was made with a steel nib or with a gold nib. Even when drawing you can’t always feel the difference.
Here is a pic of my collection of pens, from an old blog about pens and inks...
http://laurentbourdier.blog.free.fr/index.php?post/2015/03/14/Pelikan-M200-un-bon-stylo-à-dessin
Just like pro musicians, pro artists are not often wealthy, they‘ll use whatever they can afford, they are first interested in what does the job, then what does the job best, and then it’s the rabbit hole again. But that’s the main difference between pros and hobbyists. Hobbyists (and successful artists) are more concerned about the hype and the subtle quality of the tools, because they can afford it.
Also when artists meet in real life, it’s likely they talk about gear or technique, because it’s easier than to talk about art. Same as in any forum.
Some artists have a special bond with tools and materials. I was told that ancient Chinese calligraphs had a funeral ritual for their favorite brushes, when completely worn out...
And we could talk about Japanese carpentry (that’s clearly becoming an art form) and the price of natural sharpening stones...
I can draw with a piece of burnt wood out of the fireplace, it’s just as fun as using a specialty charcoal or « fusain » or a pencil. Materials are important though, but they are both the tool and the product… A sculptor would chose his stone carefully. I’m very sensitive to the quality of the paper for a specific use. I have a favorite brand of China ink, but it’s not really more expensive than other. Same for pencils, brushes, paints. Some of these choices are similar to « gear » choices, others are more personnal.
I love to draw with a homemade bamboo dip pen (as Van Gogh did), it’s really just a piece of wood, but I equally love a 500$ Pelikan piston filler with a 18K gold nib... This one is the pen equivalent of a Gibson Les Paul Custom, just less expensive. So yes there are rabbit holes and possible tech discussion. And no, when the work is finished you can’t tell if it was made with a steel nib or with a gold nib. Even when drawing you can’t always feel the difference.
Here is a pic of my collection of pens, from an old blog about pens and inks...
http://laurentbourdier.blog.free.fr/index.php?post/2015/03/14/Pelikan-M200-un-bon-stylo-à-dessin
Just like pro musicians, pro artists are not often wealthy, they‘ll use whatever they can afford, they are first interested in what does the job, then what does the job best, and then it’s the rabbit hole again. But that’s the main difference between pros and hobbyists. Hobbyists (and successful artists) are more concerned about the hype and the subtle quality of the tools, because they can afford it.
Also when artists meet in real life, it’s likely they talk about gear or technique, because it’s easier than to talk about art. Same as in any forum.
Some artists have a special bond with tools and materials. I was told that ancient Chinese calligraphs had a funeral ritual for their favorite brushes, when completely worn out...
And we could talk about Japanese carpentry (that’s clearly becoming an art form) and the price of natural sharpening stones...
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I’ll just mention that bringing an acrylic painting to the critique for a 4 credit hour studio class was not a good idea. If you didn’t build, stretch, and gesso your own canvas, ouch. If you used one of those pre-made thin ones, then you were an older lady and they made them cry. Traveling to DC or NYC for paints or just to get an up close look at certain works back then was fairly common. Brushes that weren’t total junk were very expensive. Oil paint, linseed oil, almost everything that was quality cost quite a bit. The poor abstract expressionists would have hundreds of dollars worth of globs on canvases so large they wouldn’t fit through the door.
It’s all just a big club, and there are rites of initiation and tiers of intrigue and hogwash that weeds out all but the extremely dedicated.
Ultimately, there comes a point that you hit a stride and you like what you like, and it works for you.
For me, a connection to my ancestors inspires me. With firearms, I enjoy shooting, but shooting my full size Sig P320 does very little for me, but shooting my granddad’s Colt Python? That’s where it’s at.
My Wife buys me the Coca-Cola in the bottles made with cane sugar. Sometimes after a long day, I pop the top and do a Mean Joe Green. The little things add up.
When I played professionally, I was bewitched at first by the gear. Once I’d played a ton of shows, I could walk in with a loudbox and do every bit as good as I could with an old Fender amp.
Most of the week I shave quickly with a cheap electric razor, but if I really want to have a good shave, I take out my granddad’s razor. I’ve even got my great grandad’s. Those things really matter to me. It matters that I wear my grandad’s hats when I walk my dog, that I use my Father’s knife to cut something.
Last night my Wife and I watched “Southern Comfort” (Powers Booth). My brother and I watched it in 1981 and so I texted him a picture of it on the TV. We both hadn’t seen it for almost 40 years but we both still remembered the melody of the Cajun song towards the end.
I just shined up the brass sleigh bells on my late Mother’s leather door strap and hung it on my front door. It took me a month of treating it to get the leather supple enough again. Those bells hung on her door and maybe generations before her.
It’s all just a big club, and there are rites of initiation and tiers of intrigue and hogwash that weeds out all but the extremely dedicated.
Ultimately, there comes a point that you hit a stride and you like what you like, and it works for you.
For me, a connection to my ancestors inspires me. With firearms, I enjoy shooting, but shooting my full size Sig P320 does very little for me, but shooting my granddad’s Colt Python? That’s where it’s at.
My Wife buys me the Coca-Cola in the bottles made with cane sugar. Sometimes after a long day, I pop the top and do a Mean Joe Green. The little things add up.
When I played professionally, I was bewitched at first by the gear. Once I’d played a ton of shows, I could walk in with a loudbox and do every bit as good as I could with an old Fender amp.
Most of the week I shave quickly with a cheap electric razor, but if I really want to have a good shave, I take out my granddad’s razor. I’ve even got my great grandad’s. Those things really matter to me. It matters that I wear my grandad’s hats when I walk my dog, that I use my Father’s knife to cut something.
Last night my Wife and I watched “Southern Comfort” (Powers Booth). My brother and I watched it in 1981 and so I texted him a picture of it on the TV. We both hadn’t seen it for almost 40 years but we both still remembered the melody of the Cajun song towards the end.
I just shined up the brass sleigh bells on my late Mother’s leather door strap and hung it on my front door. It took me a month of treating it to get the leather supple enough again. Those bells hung on her door and maybe generations before her.
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sax4blues
Poster Extraordinaire
Cory Wong was talking about this. He said he doesn't focus on gear because he has already been through the quest and has what he likes for the music he plays.
I was thinking about this in the sense most local players are in cover bands which want to cover a wide range of styles/sounds. Same with me the home player & church player. My song selection is all over the place so I'm interested in a wider range of gear.
I did read years ago Brian Ray when he joined Paul McCartney was very diligent about gear selection to achieve the sounds of Paul's extensive catalog.
Kandinskyesque
Friend of Leo's
I was taught my first guitar chords (among other things) by a family friend about a half dozen years older than me, he was a bit guitar obsessed back then.
We're still in contact now and again and he's now probably my country's most prestigious portrait artist. He obsesses over paints, canvases and brushes every bit as I do with guitars and microphones.
My next door neighbour is a sculptor and his obsession with old and new welding "rigs" puts my obsession in the shade.
I imagine it's that same for most people who become willing hostages to their creativity.
I'm convinced drummers are worse than guitarists...well at least the ones I've met.
We're still in contact now and again and he's now probably my country's most prestigious portrait artist. He obsesses over paints, canvases and brushes every bit as I do with guitars and microphones.
My next door neighbour is a sculptor and his obsession with old and new welding "rigs" puts my obsession in the shade.
I imagine it's that same for most people who become willing hostages to their creativity.
I'm convinced drummers are worse than guitarists...well at least the ones I've met.
Tricone
Friend of Leo's
Yes.
…dont you see its all relative ,
if you got your first air brush your acrylic brush painting technique would change as you manuever to integrate the new technology into your art form . the written word would change as you learned to use a type writer, then again for a word processor,
the same with music if you played directly into an amp , your playing would change as you added a distortion device in to the signal chain and again if you added a delay processor .
obsession ?more like desire , what are you trying to do with the art, music , written word , and what would it take to get you there?
that is more like it
ClashCityTele
Friend of Leo's
William Gibson wrote 'Neuromancer' on an antique Hermes 2000 typewriter that had belonged to his wife's step-grandfather!
It was all he had at the time & couldn't afford a PC/word processor. Thus inventing cyberpunk & steampunk at the same time.
He seems to have done ok since then.
Brian May of Queen, although a little obsessive to say the least about his Red Special, borrowed Roger Taylor's Telecaster to record 'Crazy Little Thing Called Love' in order to get the right sound. He also used a cheap 70's Satellite Strat copy in the studio.
Prince had a huge collection of Boss pedals. Bob Ross painted with a 1" & 2" paintbrush!
I build scale models and I buy most of my tools from Poundland.
Use the tools at your disposal to create what is in your head.
[Joe Bonamassa is just a hoarder -
]
It was all he had at the time & couldn't afford a PC/word processor. Thus inventing cyberpunk & steampunk at the same time.
He seems to have done ok since then.
Brian May of Queen, although a little obsessive to say the least about his Red Special, borrowed Roger Taylor's Telecaster to record 'Crazy Little Thing Called Love' in order to get the right sound. He also used a cheap 70's Satellite Strat copy in the studio.
Prince had a huge collection of Boss pedals. Bob Ross painted with a 1" & 2" paintbrush!
I build scale models and I buy most of my tools from Poundland.
Use the tools at your disposal to create what is in your head.
[Joe Bonamassa is just a hoarder -
]
Bob Womack
Friend of Leo's
I have a theory. In this time period and milieu, guitarist are not nearly as educated on reading scores. They encounter music by hearing it. Because of this, music artists spent the '60s to the present trying to come up with new sounds. As a result, guitarists in their audiences hear new sounds and try to find out how to make them.
Russian Romantic composer Pyotr Illiych Tchaikovsky was constantly in search of new sounds. While he was working on the commission for the famed Nutcracker Ballet, he remembered hearing a new instrument in Paris that combined bells with a piano keyboard. He actually bought one and had it smuggled into Russia so he could be the first to integrate it into a stage performance. That's how important sound was to him.
Charles Dickens was extremely particular about the physical elements, the binding, font style, paper, engraving, illustrations, etc., on his books. He rightly understood that reading a book was more than words, it was a multi-sensory experience involving tactile, visual, auditory, and olfactory senses.
Bob
Russian Romantic composer Pyotr Illiych Tchaikovsky was constantly in search of new sounds. While he was working on the commission for the famed Nutcracker Ballet, he remembered hearing a new instrument in Paris that combined bells with a piano keyboard. He actually bought one and had it smuggled into Russia so he could be the first to integrate it into a stage performance. That's how important sound was to him.
Charles Dickens was extremely particular about the physical elements, the binding, font style, paper, engraving, illustrations, etc., on his books. He rightly understood that reading a book was more than words, it was a multi-sensory experience involving tactile, visual, auditory, and olfactory senses.
Bob
I don't know about that as a general rule.
Eric Clapton bought 6 Stratocasters and mixed and matched parts.
Eddie Van Halen built his Frankenstrat.
Jerry Garcia had multiple fully custom and unique guitars built for him.
Many great cooks will be very particular about the equipment they have to hand. If money is in ready supply, an incredible amount can be invested in their art equipment. I myself can get rather excited by certain pans, knives, and kitchen machines.
This is not a photo of my kitchen, but I wouldn't mind cooking in a room like that.
This is not a photo of my kitchen, but I wouldn't mind cooking in a room like that.
Do other “artist’s”/creators of “art” fixate on the tools with which they create, as much as musicians (especially guitarists) do?
Guitarists are absolutely nothing special in that respect, in fact, compared to many professional orchestral musicians I know, the average guitarist is but a ridiculously petty beginner, quite happy to own a factory made instrument from the 1950's. Violins from the same period, from the same factories, which were more expensive than the guitars being made, are just (rightly) considered cheap junk now. The handwork and sound from the better quality modern Chinese factories violins, plus the reasonable price, makes it hard to give away many of the older factory violins.
Guitarists are absolutely nothing special in that respect, in fact, compared to many professional orchestral musicians I know, the average guitarist is but a ridiculously petty beginner, quite happy to own a factory made instrument from the 1950's. Violins from the same period, from the same factories, which were more expensive than the guitars being made, are just (rightly) considered cheap junk now. The handwork and sound from the better quality modern Chinese factories violins, plus the reasonable price, makes it hard to give away many of the older factory violins.
mindlobster
Tele-Afflicted
Great conversation for me, as a player and educator!
As somebody who has been drawing a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles fan comic for over two years now, I can offer some inside knowledge.
www.tdpri.com
And the answer is “No” I don't obsess with what I'm using and how socially acceptable it might be. I'm just using what's available, although I have changed my gear during the making of this comic.
This very early page shows me working with Identipen double tipped pens, which I used for a long time and was familiar with. Using Indian ink for the blacks and the grays.
Same thing here but for the colors I used Ecoline colored inks, which are TOUGH to get right.
Some time later I began using pens by Edding which offered greater flexibility because of them having finer tips. I did most of the comic using those.
At some time in the comic, I began using Talens felt tip pens for the coloring, which meant much less hassle than doing the coloring by brush
And not long after, I discovered Panduro felt tip pens which are actually the choice for professional artists, the color they provide is much richer than the Talens pens.
The bad thing about Edding pens is that they run out pretty quickly, so I once again changed, using Staedler Pens, which because of their smaller diameter makes them more comfortable to hold.
And that's what I'm still using today, Staedler pens, Panduro and Talens filt tip pens, ecoline and Indian ink.
My Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles fan comic. The Full eighty Percent. In full.
Well, over the last two years, I posted several threads about me doing a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles fan comic. And for the most part people have been very enthusiastic and have been asking me for either a link which has it in full or to keep them updated when I have new pages. So I figured...
And the answer is “No” I don't obsess with what I'm using and how socially acceptable it might be. I'm just using what's available, although I have changed my gear during the making of this comic.
This very early page shows me working with Identipen double tipped pens, which I used for a long time and was familiar with. Using Indian ink for the blacks and the grays.
Same thing here but for the colors I used Ecoline colored inks, which are TOUGH to get right.
Some time later I began using pens by Edding which offered greater flexibility because of them having finer tips. I did most of the comic using those.
At some time in the comic, I began using Talens felt tip pens for the coloring, which meant much less hassle than doing the coloring by brush
And not long after, I discovered Panduro felt tip pens which are actually the choice for professional artists, the color they provide is much richer than the Talens pens.
The bad thing about Edding pens is that they run out pretty quickly, so I once again changed, using Staedler Pens, which because of their smaller diameter makes them more comfortable to hold.
And that's what I'm still using today, Staedler pens, Panduro and Talens filt tip pens, ecoline and Indian ink.
metalicaster
Friend of Leo's
It's not only creatives who care about their tools.
www.livescience.com
I don't know if this counts, but I write. I have to use a good mechanical keyboard to enjoy typing for any period of time. The one I'm using right now, I just got; and I think it was a little too expensive for keyboard. However, the switches have just the right weight and it makes a glorious noise, so I don't feel too bad about it.
Why Mathematicians Are Obsessed with (and Hoarding) This Chalk
It's considered the Rolls-Royce of chalk. Here's why.
www.livescience.com
I don't know if this counts, but I write. I have to use a good mechanical keyboard to enjoy typing for any period of time. The one I'm using right now, I just got; and I think it was a little too expensive for keyboard. However, the switches have just the right weight and it makes a glorious noise, so I don't feel too bad about it.
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Lou Tencodpees
Tele-Afflicted
I think Shakespeare and Van Gogh would conceivably be afflicted if they had advertisements randomly popping up on paper and canvas.
As a painter of abstract expressionist pieces, I find that how I apply paint is probably as critical an aspect in the look of the finished painting as color and structure. Brushes and knives are used, but add sprayers, templates, screens, tape, compasses, protractors and french curves and straight edges, rollers, sponges, etc.- all relatively cheap and readily available. Add paint viscosity, medium (oil, water, water-reducible), rheology, etc.
For traditional painters, there are all sorts of brushes and palette knives, and each brush material can make a big difference in how the paint flows/levels and the texture and impasto of brush strokes.
Do I "fixate?" Not really, but tools are a very important part of the creative process. I usually consider the specific application tools, the range of colors, and the rheology of the paint that I need before I start, even if I don't have a model or idea of where I want to go or end up before I start.
And btw, I consider abstract expressionist art comparable to improvisation in music.
For traditional painters, there are all sorts of brushes and palette knives, and each brush material can make a big difference in how the paint flows/levels and the texture and impasto of brush strokes.
Do I "fixate?" Not really, but tools are a very important part of the creative process. I usually consider the specific application tools, the range of colors, and the rheology of the paint that I need before I start, even if I don't have a model or idea of where I want to go or end up before I start.
And btw, I consider abstract expressionist art comparable to improvisation in music.
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