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Do Most AWD Cars Have A Tendency To "Snowplow?"

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by jumpnblues, Nov 25, 2020.

  1. Gardo

    Gardo Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Dashing through the snow in a beat up Chevrolet was my favorite winter sport. I learned how set up for a curve by pitching the car sideways before I actually entered the curve. I was pretty good at it 40 years ago .
     
  2. archetype

    archetype Fiend of Leo's

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    Here in Western NY we hear the tire store ads on Canadian radio stations. They've got the right way to do this. Tire stores have a lot of space for storing your own mounted snow tires. You buy snow tires, wheels, have them mounted/balanced, and pay a fee for storing them until snow season. Before the snow flies, you go to the tire store, have your all-seasons swapped for the snows on your car, and they store your all-seasons until better weather. Repeat as necessary.
     
  3. otterhound

    otterhound Poster Extraordinaire

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    Oversteer is what killed Paul Walker . Most people would be and are clueless as to how to control and/or utilize an oversteer tendency .
     
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  4. boneyguy

    boneyguy Doctor of Teleocity

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    I grew up in The Great White North....northern Ontario. So driving in snow and ice was a regular activity. My dad was an amateur rally driver so I got a lot of instruction from him. As many have mentioned the number one rule is SLOW DOWN. Snow and ice don't care whether you're driving a 4x4....the same physics apply. You are not invincible because you drive a pickup truck that you need a small step ladder to get into that has huge knobby tires. Again, snow and ice don't care about your huge knobby tires.

    Growing up in a place with many months of winter you tend to get a lot of practice as a 16 year old with a new drivers license. Lots of time spent in empty parking lots and on frozen lakes away from other vehicles learning about the physics of it all. It's a good idea to practice that stuff so it becomes intuitive especially to make intuitive that you (generally) keep your foot away from the brake if you start to lose control in snow or ice.

    When I first moved to the west (wet) coast of Canada and we got our first little sprinkling of snow (that would normally be gone by the end of the day) I couldn't help but notice all the big macho 4x4's and pickup trucks off in the ditch. It just makes me shake my head...lol.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
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  5. Paul G.

    Paul G. Friend of Leo's

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    That's why 80s Porsches were known as "Dentist Killers".
     
  6. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    Tonawanda? Gosh, I can almost smell Tonawanda in the air when you say that (I guess with so many plants closed, the air is not so bad anymore) :^)

    Anyway, I am supposed to say, Buick is a bit of a Dog's Breakfast of various products, differently sourced and developed by people these days who will never meet one another. I'm surprised when modern "Buick" products have any parts that interchange between models.

    I guess the TourX had to die because of the wind down of connections between GM and what was formerly GM Europe. A shame - a pretty cool concept, more like that Americans need than these silly "SUV" thingies we see in the parking lot at Lowe's and Target.

    Before anyone attacks me for my comments about WNY, let me mention I was born at Kenmore Mercy Hospital. :^)
     
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  7. archetype

    archetype Fiend of Leo's

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    Yes. If you go in too fast, you just have to ride it out. Don't lift.
     
  8. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    My neighbor had one, and on top of the usual Porsche stuff, he had a chronic, abrupt loss of power situation - probably the carb but I never looked into it but I did beg him to sell it and get away clean. Anyway, eventually he lost power on an off ramp and backed the thing into the barrier - and lucky totaled it before that car had another shot at killing him. Snapped right around on him, as sure as five pennies equals a nickel.
     
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  9. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    I give GM the same break I give VAG for heading at a new and wise strategy but GM seems farther behind getting everything into modern platforms, and I wish they didn't have a new Hummer ahead of a great BEV for most people. Maybe they'll get that Chinese electric CarUV here sooner than I'm aware of.

    Maybe we have to give the auto industry a break for a lot of people in the US. Buick wasn't alone struggling to sell classic long roofs (wagons) in recent years. Subaru is dominating there and maybe the very good redesign dripping matte black plastic all over it is their nod to so many wanting to play super trucker?
     
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  10. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    I thought that was a combination of stupidity and inconsiderate behavior. Wasn't he the actor with someone driving his performance car in an out of hand time and place?
     
  11. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    Not especially limited to Enclaves.

    What type of tire are you using? You probably need a smaller wheel in steel, a tire fairly narrow with heavy treads. If you're using all season tires, large and wide and especially if worn, these will not cut down through the snow, but will just keep tobogganing in the direction you're already going. Your vehicle was engineered (I would say) for individuals who are as far from "Enthusiast" as you can go, and these people normally are best served continuing in the direction they've previously chosen. As opposed to a nervous vehicle that lands in the ditch when the driver sneezes.

    A lot of the other vehicles in this general class, whether Chevy or GMC or Ford or Lincoln or Nissan, will do pretty much the same thing. If you want big things to happen, you have to plan ahead and persist in your inputs to the vehicle. Otherwise this type of vehicle tends to ignore you and keep going as it was. The simplest solution is to slow down, or simply wait for the plows to get everything back to dry.
     
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  12. Wulf

    Wulf Tele-Afflicted

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    Get Thee one o Them...Yorkshire Farmers Coupe...get through anything....steel chassis aluminium body panels....can hose pigscat out ...no carpets or luxuries....run forever...built like a tank land-rover-series-2-header.jpg one careful lady owner download.jpg land-rover-series-2-header.jpg
    run for 3 weeks on cupful of diesel made from contents of her night bucket and a pile of sheepscat and a tin of brasso polish
    sieved through her old tights of course....wouldnt want to clog fuel line or filter...thats an old teastrainer
    Series II Land Rover....great things!!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  13. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    Yeah, I think a fellow named Rodas was actually driving, with the end being both men killed.

    My brother (in SoCal) sold his 2009 Porsche 911 12 months ago, and I think events like this may have played a role. There are places where these cars can be wrung out, but I recommend the actual tracks. The best horsing around in California on State Highways IMO is well away from the population centers, and a very small car and not that high output is actually more satisfying.
     
  14. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    No.

    Slow down more before your turns...obviously.

    Check your tire type, tire condition, and your air pressure too.

    AWD doesn't mean you can be a less attentive and less active snow driver. It's not a magic bullet. All the same problems still exist. You just have a little extra help, especially when first getting rolling, or once you are already losing traction.
     
  15. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    [​IMG]

    I think the O.P. would have difficulty keeping this creature upright.

    I'm seeing this in his future.

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    I'd go one step further. So many drivers, used to be unable to even get out of their driveways, and in the long haul this saved their bacon. They never even ventured out onto the highway on that potentially fateful day.

    AWD can be, essentially, a trap for drivers without adequate training and experience. AWD puts you out into the line of fire, and it can get you going better than RWD. But then it cannot get you stopped any faster and only in certain instances can it help you maintain a line you might otherwise skid out of.
     
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  17. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    See @Gardo post. I did and survived stupid things some I grew up with did not. On other car topics I've said how a jerk behind the wheel and someone playing along killed a family member. I'm now decades into adventure sports for thrills and testing skills vs the streets and highways.

    Maybe not everyone understood it if they saw it, but at first snow of the year I had my kid behind the wheel first test his braking power, push the AWD a bit in a the corner towards our house, and said "remember that realizing you can really only drive about 15 MPH in this stuff regardless of how good snow rated tires and AWD feel".
     
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  18. Gardo

    Gardo Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    I get my thrills with a guitar these days
    How I lived this long is a miracle
     
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  19. dkmw

    dkmw Poster Extraordinaire

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    This might be a good place to introduce the traction circle. Circle of fifths for cars haha. One of the first things you learn when you get performance driving instruction.

    Here’s a vid

    And here’s a basic image, with a short explanation. If you’re on snow, the circle is going to be very small - very low coefficient of friction.

    A2E60040-35FD-4E20-A891-A8CD8113BA2E.png
     
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  20. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    I guess I can relate, to not wanting to hang it out too much in your neck of the woods:

    1) Pennsylvania roads are singularly badly maintained. So many holes in which you can suffer a blowout or savage an aluminum wheel;

    2) Agriculture is king and there's just so much farm equipment venturing out on the right of way without warning; and finally

    3) Anabaptists using a horse and buggy, or using animals to haul wagons, seem to be everywhere, long past dusk and it would not be good, just to miss just 98% of them. Not good at all.
     
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