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Do Most AWD Cars Have A Tendency To "Snowplow?"

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by jumpnblues, Nov 25, 2020.

  1. Gardo

    Gardo Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    if my cars understeer in the snow I take my foot off the brake .
     
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  2. dogmeat

    dogmeat Friend of Leo's

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    a lot of them are really what I call "some" wheel drive. they are front drive until the computer says to add a rear. not much better than straight front wheel drive. I bought a Matrix as a replacement for my beloved but worn out All Track... it was terrible in snow. not even close to the capabilities the AT had (best car I ever owned)

    and, the drive wheel(s) need to be able to pull the car through the corner. no traction and inertia wins... in a straight line, often tangent to the corner. and, if decelerating, the front wheels actually act as a pivot point. the old ones from years back that often resulted in doing donuts in the street. they are better now with ABS and Traction Control systems
     
  3. Boil

    Boil Tele-Holic

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    What do you have for tires?
     
  4. Squawker

    Squawker Tele-Holic

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    My winter friend.... (XC60 D3 AWD=Haldex)
    upload_2020-11-26_6-53-34.png
     
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  5. wabashslim

    wabashslim Friend of Leo's

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    That's so, when you sue, the manufacturer can claim you were warned.
     
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  6. wabashslim

    wabashslim Friend of Leo's

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    Or they become trainers for Swift...
     
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  7. Fuelish

    Fuelish Tele-Holic

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    I’ve driven RWD, FWD over the decades, never had an accident or got stuck in snow...driving in snow ain’t rocket science, just simple physics ...fact, the day I turned 16 and had my driver’s permit, my dad took me out to a big empty lot in a snowstorm and I learned to drive a stick in ‘74.....greatest way to learn, as ya can’t accidentally stall it, and you’ll spin the wheels with too much throttle (was a RWD Toyota Corona Mk II, iirc..... have owned several cars since then , some RWD, most FWD..driving a manual trans Honda Fit currently, but.... winters in Philadelphia and Detroit were worse than what we have down here in Knoxville now.... the only thing I worry about driving in the little snow we see is the idiots who can barely drive safely on a summer day, locals are morons... yeah, I’m a damn yankee
     
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  8. Wallaby

    Wallaby Tele-Afflicted

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    This.

    It sounds like a loss of traction going into the turn?

    New tires make a world of difference, FWIW. Also some extra weight in the back might be good.
     
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  9. somebodyelseuk

    somebodyelseuk Tele-Meister

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    Everything does.
    It's about trying to change direction on a low friction surface.

    The ONLY benefit 4WD offers on a road car is improved traction, ie acceleration on slippery surfaces.
    Braking, cornering etc is down to how good your tyres and brakes are and how well the suspension is set up.
     
  10. 1293

    1293 Poster Extraordinaire

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    I've had Audis and Subarus for the last 20 years. They generally go where you point them with proper snow tires. I'm old and go slow these days. I haven't experimented with traction/stability control enough to figure it out. My first Audi didn't have such things. I would tap the brakes and give the wheel a jiggle to bring the rear out and then mash the pedal when I was pointing in the right direction. 100 mph on twisty roads covered with 4" of snow. Pre fatherhood had its perks.
     
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  11. 1293

    1293 Poster Extraordinaire

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    That, and having the tires with more tread in the rear.
     
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  12. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    Wow! Is this a serious question ?
    Yeah I suppose it is lol.

    Ok here's how it works. If the front tires are slipping, either from too much braking or from too much pressure on the gas pedal if front drive or AWD or 4x4.
    They don't effing steer! The car or truck goes the way it's pointed. Bald tires or crappy tires, wide ones are worse don't help.
    If y'all ain't figured that out yet, move to Florida. :)

    Warm temperatures make ice and snow traction worse too. Huge difference between 30 above and 30 below. It's been warm here in northern Minnesota so far and the tow trucks are making money off people that don't slow down. Had five vehicles in the ditch on my snowplow route a couple weeks back, it's like 25 miles. Actually one was a Jeep, they always go in. Other was a moron in a 4x4 pickup that caused the other three to hit the ditch, he hit two of them.
    Somehow I made it to the shop that morning in my pickup without putting it in four wheel drive, didn't think it was that bad.

    Slow down ! You'll get there faster than driving fast and waiting for a tow truck.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  13. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I’d rather live in a place with a nice climate and have no clue about driving in the snow, than live here, where everybody and their granny can maneuver easily in 6” inches of slop.

    My wife’s Subaru is 1000x better in the snow than her abysmal Escape :mad: and Focus :eek: were.

    And my 4WD F-150 is better than it. :lol:
     
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  14. superjam144

    superjam144 Tele-Afflicted

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    One winter they sent me up to GORE mountain to help finish a pump house for snow making. Man it snows up there. Couple times I would see pickups 4 to 5 of them all in ditches as I slowly made my way to and from work in a ford focus. I spend more on tires right before snow hits... Either the best all seasons, or snows for me. One night it took me hours to get back home, but I did make it, and got my forty! :lol:

    The scariest moment I had driving in snow was going to the dam one morning.. The hill to get into the site is surrounded by sheer cliffs... I must have went 5 mph the whole way. There was a line of trucks behind me, and they were mad! One of the operators was furious with me and told me to buy a truck... :p

    Got a RWD grand marquis now, and it has been a learning experience for sure. Got brand new snows on the back for this coming winter. I think it's worth spending more for better tires during the winter months. I don't bother with comp or collision on my beaters, and I figure the tires go a long way in protecting my vehicle from being totaled.

    There was an old guy from my small town, and he drove a Ford Ranger. Everyone knew him as Gorgeous George. He was big and ugly, hence the name :p. But he was too poor to afford new tires, and had baldies on his truck. Went around a corner straight into a ditch and was killed... Everyone blamed his wife for spending his money... Those ditches on the sides of roadways are deadly for sure... And trees don't move!
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
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  15. jumpnblues

    jumpnblues Friend of Leo's

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    Standard street tires. Not a very aggressive tread. Sounds like tires are the issue. Actually, the car is good in the snow (pulling away from a stop and going up snow covered hills) except for going around corners. I have to take ninety degree corners very slowly or the car will understeer straight ahead.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
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  16. charlie chitlin

    charlie chitlin Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Most multi-ton things don't like to change direction once they get moving.
    If you move a thingy up front over to one side, everything behind it is going to try to continue going straight.
     
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  17. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    Funny timing.

    First, my mother had an Enclave. It was a 100% craptacular vehicle via dashboard electronics failing. Its AWD was not in same league as the Subarus in the family, the Acura she got to replace the Buick, or our VW with Haldex.

    The funny timing.... Tuesday was our first slippery day of season and I drove the Outback and manual transmission VW back to back. The Haldex is very controlled drift happy vs the Subaru.

    Many AWD cars have a front bias that can make them feel like the front pushes. I don't know what that Buick was but Subarus depending on model are 60/40, 50/50 or 40/60. The VW's Haldex (also in Audi, Volvo, some Fords) is 90/10 and moves to 50/50 in 1/8 of a wheel turn.

    I've been in some front biased AWD that are slower to engage the rear and that seems funky. Our ski club is a living lab of what AWD is superior. The service road from ski jumps to top has days when you only see Subarus or the Haldex VAG vehicles making it up.
     
  18. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Friend of Leo's

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    True in more ways than one, depending on what’s in front of you.

    Braking is as braking does.

    The first thing in every driving permit course should be “brake before the turn. Power into the turn.” The second rule should be “this is especially important to remember in wet and/or icy conditions”.
     
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  19. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    And Tuesday I'm sure I confirmed the German engineers programmed less or no ABS than our Subaru and most AWD when there's boost or you are in the cam profile that should be officially named State Of Funland.

    If you turn off the Outback stability control you still feel the 60/40 bias. It's sort of crazy how you never feel the VW 90/10 bias but notice the 50/50 bias. I think the masses let up on the gas for most and then the car behaves. Thank you VAG engineers for programing some ideal for misbehavior.
     
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  20. Boil

    Boil Tele-Holic

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    Yes that would do it, we use Hankook iPike tires on our cars, they work well.
     
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