Disrespected proscenium - all too common

Status
Not open for further replies.

billy logan

Tele-Afflicted
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Posts
1,249
Location
weatherford tx
Fantastic festival. Great band. Bad stage set-up:
1660264122536.png

Deprives the audience of like 15% of the visual.

Just put the speakers on a ledge 8 feet farther away from the performers and 3 feet lower than the stage. Still pointing at the same target.

Black rectangles on the floor...they're a correctable stagecraft flaw I've been passively accepting. Forever.

And my point still holds whether it's attractive talented ladies of today up there or graying talented bluegrass legends from the ancient Appalachians!

or put the speakers under acoustically transparent, stage-level metal mesh.

btw plz stay on the "proscenium" topic. Thank you. What set me off was the monitors at the (new?) Grand Ol Opry on Circle TV last night. The show is titled "Opry." (or maybe "Opry Live") Last night it was a John Anderson tribute w/John Anderson, Dan Auerbach, Sierra Hull, Dave Rawlings & Gillian Welch, Elizabeth Cook, etc. and a bunch of monitors on stage making me glad I was watching on TV and not there in person.

edit2add- Have I convinced you yet? I'll put it this way - Would you be happy if you hired a photographer and the pix were fine - except for a finger on the lens in every shot?
 
Last edited:

Bob Womack

Friend of Leo's
Joined
May 28, 2016
Posts
2,512
Location
Between Clever and Stupid
First world, new school problem. It's been done this way for decades.

Your first solution adds loads of problems to the monitor situation. Loudness drops logarithmically with distance so, as you move the monitors away from the artist you are required to pump logarithmically more sound into the venue, adding to the feedback and stage noise potential. Your second, the monitor-under-mesh solution, is terrible for festival programs because adjusting the monitors for each act is a cast iron pain in the butt. They also must be custom fitted into the stage. That is typically done in custom tour stages, not permanent emplacements that must handle all sorts of acts.

Pragmatism often trumps prettiness. Close monitors in a big venue make things both acoustically and practically easier to handle. Besides, an empty stage is a boring stage.

Bob

PS. You do know that the proscenium is the plane of the proscenium arch, the arch that used to contain the fireproof curtain between the stage house and the theater.
 

drf64

Doctor of Teleocity
Silver Supporter
Joined
Jul 24, 2009
Posts
11,147
Age
58
Location
Ada, MI
Nice Blueridge. Maybe the best acoustic for the price.
 

Quarter1969

TDPRI Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2022
Posts
96
Age
53
Location
Warsaw, Poland
Now that you mention it, that guitar is blocking my view
That's the reason an air guitar was invented for ;) As I'm European, we pay more attention to the lower trees than upper hills, hence I'm with the OP here - get the wedges outta way! ;)

On a more serious note - how about the ear plug system? Too difficult to set up? Too expensive? Just curious, don't know the reality of stage setup nowadays.

In the past times I was glad if there was ANY sound on stage available - it happened that I was playing based on the sound that would bounce back from the FoH waves hitting the back of the venue and coming back to the stage with a nice, eye-watering latency.
 

telemnemonics

Telefied
Ad Free Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Posts
34,484
Age
62
Location
Maine
I carry a supercomputer in my pocket but there is just no speaker tech that doesnt require big boxes blocking the view of "the show".
Sorry.

Dan Auerbach played Grand Ole Opry?
Whut?
 

loudboy

Tele-Afflicted
Joined
May 21, 2003
Posts
1,133
Location
Sedona, Arizona
On a more serious note - how about the ear plug system? Too difficult to set up? Too expensive? Just curious, don't know the reality of stage setup nowadays.
Oftentimes, IEM systems are not easily implementable in a festival situation, as to do it right, they require a separate complete mix for each musician, and time just doesn't allow it. IOW, if it's not in their mix, they won't hear it at all, not like if they're working off stage volume and it's just a little lower.

Any band band worth their salt can get a show done with just vocals and any DI instruments, such as acoustic guitar, in the wedges. Use your amps to hear the rest, adjusted in balance with the drums.
I carry a supercomputer in my pocket but there is just no speaker tech that doesnt require big boxes blocking the view of "the show".
Sorry.
They do - they're called line arrays, and every med-big show uses them now. However, with a silent stage and the band on ears, they can eliminate floor wedges, but they now need to put front fill speakers along the lip, so the audience can hear the show. So one way or another...

3-Harrahs_12XT_lip_fills.jpg
 

billy logan

Tele-Afflicted
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Posts
1,249
Location
weatherford tx
Yessir - Dan Auerbach, playing iirc a solid-body Guild with a lot of switches like a Jaguar. The occasion is that Auerbach put together a John Anderson tribute album. edit-forgot to mention Marcus King and Tyler Childers are in the show also.

Here's the whole show. It starts with John Anderson performing I'll Be A Diamond Someday
 
Last edited:

billy logan

Tele-Afflicted
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Posts
1,249
Location
weatherford tx
the caption from wikipedia>>> The proscenium arch is the frame decorated with square tiles that forms the vertical rectangle separating the stage (mostly behind the lowered curtain) from the auditorium (the area with seats) <<<the caption from wikipedia

the photo from wikipedia VVV
1660287683416.png

^^^photo from wikipedia

I, for one, can imagine monitors placed along at the level where that box is, in front of and below the stage.

And front-fill speakers in about the same area (on the lower facade of the stage)

Beginning photographers often center people's faces in the camera frame, which leads often to cutting off the feet. Top edge of the frame down to near the top of subjects' heads = a better chance of including the whole person in the frame. Give the body its dignity. Amputation to be avoided when possible.
 
Last edited:

1stpitch

Tele-Holic
Silver Supporter
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Posts
566
Location
South Carolina, USA
Was it a music festival, or a womans' legs festival?

IMO, the legs are nice, but the exciting parts are the ones dress covered up. I assume it wasn't one of those kinds of festivals either.
 

Oxidao

Tele-Holic
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Posts
940
Age
58
Location
PNA, Spain
Yes ... or absence of Proscenium at all.

No matter wich girl or boy, the monitors are hiding.
You wanna see the whole picture.

1660308074633.png
 

buster poser

Poster Extraordinaire
Joined
May 1, 2018
Posts
6,951
Location
Tewa Land NM
Fantastic festival. Great band. Bad stage set-up: View attachment 1016015
Deprives the audience of like 15% of the visual.

Just put the speakers on a ledge 8 feet farther away from the performers and 3 feet lower than the stage. Still pointing at the same target.

Black rectangles on the floor...they're a correctable stagecraft flaw I've been passively accepting. Forever.

And my point still holds whether it's attractive talented ladies of today up there or graying talented bluegrass legends from the ancient Appalachians!

or put the speakers under acoustically transparent, stage-level metal mesh.

btw plz stay on the "proscenium" topic. Thank you. What set me off was the monitors at the (new?) Grand Ol Opry on Circle TV last night. The show is titled "Opry." (or maybe "Opry Live") Last night it was a John Anderson tribute w/John Anderson, Dan Auerbach, Sierra Hull, Dave Rawlings & Gillian Welch, Elizabeth Cook, etc. and a bunch of monitors on stage making me glad I was watching on TV and not there in person.

edit2add- Have I convinced you yet? I'll put it this way - Would you be happy if you hired a photographer and the pix were fine - except for a finger on the lens in every shot?
Love, love, love Sierra Ferrell. What a treat.
 

bottlenecker

Poster Extraordinaire
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Posts
6,248
Location
Wisconsin
Fantastic festival. Great band. Bad stage set-up: View attachment 1016015
Deprives the audience of like 15% of the visual.

Just put the speakers on a ledge 8 feet farther away from the performers and 3 feet lower than the stage. Still pointing at the same target.

Black rectangles on the floor...they're a correctable stagecraft flaw I've been passively accepting. Forever.

And my point still holds whether it's attractive talented ladies of today up there or graying talented bluegrass legends from the ancient Appalachians!

or put the speakers under acoustically transparent, stage-level metal mesh.

btw plz stay on the "proscenium" topic. Thank you. What set me off was the monitors at the (new?) Grand Ol Opry on Circle TV last night. The show is titled "Opry." (or maybe "Opry Live") Last night it was a John Anderson tribute w/John Anderson, Dan Auerbach, Sierra Hull, Dave Rawlings & Gillian Welch, Elizabeth Cook, etc. and a bunch of monitors on stage making me glad I was watching on TV and not there in person.

edit2add- Have I convinced you yet? I'll put it this way - Would you be happy if you hired a photographer and the pix were fine - except for a finger on the lens in every shot?

Hey, it's a good point. As long as the answer isn't IEM, go ahead and fix it. Just make sure it works because there are a few of us who hear with our ears, occasionally.
 

Killing Floor

Poster Extraordinaire
Silver Supporter
Joined
Feb 3, 2021
Posts
9,504
Location
Austin, TX
I lived in another smallish town near where Hull was born for a few years. It was a real joy watching her sing and play even as a teen. You knew she was heading straight up. What a talent.
 

Old Deaf Roadie

Friend of Leo's
Gold Supporter
Joined
Oct 11, 2017
Posts
4,626
Location
Goonieville, OR
Interesting that no one has expanded, that I know of, on the Grateful Dead's Wall Of Sound which didn't need stage monitors.

Maybe that would demand the full set up which proved unwieldy to say the least.

View attachment 1016151
I once did a show with Commander Cody sometime circa 2004 or 2005. In the process of advancing the show, and on the topic of the backline rental piano we were supplying, I asked him if he would prefer the venue’s very nice Yamaha grand as I had recently seen a pic of him sitting at Keith Godchaux’s grand piano in front of the wall. His reply was a BIG NO on the grand piano, and a big wishful yes on the Wall of Sound.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.




Top