Difference between Firebird pickups and mini humbuckers?

[Heartbreaker_Esq]

I know nothing about pickups, so this may be a silly question. I recently played a buddy's Firebird and loved it, especially the neck pickup. I don't love the neck pup in teles, and I feel like the sound I got from the Firebird would be great in a tele. But looking around, it's not clear to me whether "Firebird pickup" is a separate and unique thing, or if it's just a mini humbucker. Are they one and the same? And if not, what are the differences?

 

[ahlios]

I know nothing about pickups, so this may be a silly question. I recently played a buddy's Firebird and loved it, especially the neck pickup. I don't love the neck pup in teles, and I feel like the sound I got from the Firebird would be great in a tele. But looking around, it's not clear to me whether "Firebird pickup" is a separate and unique thing, or if it's just a mini humbucker. Are they one and the same? And if not, what are the differences?

The definitive guide to firebird mini humbuckers: https://www.heliotricity.com/firebird-pickups/

Karl

 

[mandoloony]

Same size, totally different construction and sound. And then there's a Johnny Smith pickup, which is about halfway between the two.

Mini-hums are really just shrunken humbuckers, with a bar magnet underneath, screws through one coil and slug through the other. Firebird pickups have small bar magnets (or "blades") through each coil and no magnet underneath, hence the lack of adjustable screw poles. This gives them a magnetic structure closer to a Strat or Tele pickup, hence the more Fender-ish sound. Firebird pickups in Teles are loved by a lot of players.

 

[GGardner]

@Heartbreaker_Esq -- Which model is in your avatar? It looks like an American Performer with an arm cut. Or am I just seeing things?

 

[brookdalebill]

I have, and love both.
Mini humbuckers are slightly less bright sounding.
Firebird pickups definitely have more inherent treble, IMO.

 

[Heartbreaker_Esq]

@Heartbreaker_Esq -- Which model is in your avatar? It looks like an American Performer with an arm cut. Or am I just seeing things?

It is the American Performer. There are no comfort cuts anywhere - I think it's just a trick of the light on that finish.

 

[Heartbreaker_Esq]

Same size, totally different construction and sound. And then there's a Johnny Smith pickup, which is about halfway between the two.

Mini-hums are really just shrunken humbuckers, with a bar magnet underneath, screws through one coil and slug through the other. Firebird pickups have small bar magnets (or "blades") through each coil and no magnet underneath, hence the lack of adjustable screw poles. This gives them a magnetic structure closer to a Strat or Tele pickup, hence the more Fender-ish sound. Firebird pickups in Teles are loved by a lot of players.

Excellent info, thanks! Between this and @brookdalebill 's comments, it's starting to make sense why I liked that sound so much. If I wanted to replace the single-coil neck pup in a Classic Vibe 50s, are there any (hopefully budget-friendly) Firebird pickups y'all would recommend?

 

[bebopbrain]

The FB-720 is a Firebird pickup from Epiphone.
Mine have a sticker that clearly says MINI HB.
No wonder there is confusion!
Maybe someone applied the wrong sticker and they ended up on the surplus market.

These were selling for as low as $10 each at the auction site.
Is there a cheaper pickup on the planet?
They are well made with wax potting and connectors.

 

[TF from MN]

I can recommend the "Songbird" pickup, same size and shape as Firebird pickup, sold by the Guitar Madness shop on eBay, for around 20 bucks. I use it in the neck position on a Strat kit I built. Crisp yet full-sounding.

 

[Killing Floor]

I know nothing about pickups, so this may be a silly question. I recently played a buddy's Firebird and loved it, especially the neck pickup. I don't love the neck pup in teles, and I feel like the sound I got from the Firebird would be great in a tele. But looking around, it's not clear to me whether "Firebird pickup" is a separate and unique thing, or if it's just a mini humbucker. Are they one and the same? And if not, what are the differences?

Not to derail, Fender did make a JM style with 3 bird style Seymour Duncan pickups. I have one. It’s hot! Look up the Spark-O-Matic from the Parallel Universe series a couple years ago. It specifically was Fender’s tribute to the Thunderbird.

 

[Wyatt]

The FB-720 is a Firebird pickup from Epiphone.
Mine have a sticker that clearly says MINI HB.
No wonder there is confusion!
Maybe someone applied the wrong sticker and they ended up on the surplus market.

The problem is all these names and classifications are made up by guitarists, who want to simplify everything.

Minihumbucker is a form factor. Both the (vintage) Epiphone/Les Paul Deluxe minihumbuckers and Firebird pickups are minihumbuckers...two series coils that are RW/RP from each other. WHen Gibson designed the Firebird, they want to cut costs, they the Firebird PUs were actually designed to be the cost-cutting replacement for the Epiphone minihumbucker.

The reality is that there are multiple types of minihumbuckers, especially if you throw in hybirds made by Seymour Duncan, DiMarzio, and others.

For the OP, Les Paul Deluxe minihuckers fall somewhere inbetween PAF and Strat in tone and output. They were "rounder" and more balanced than the Firebird PU. Firebird PUs had a more aggressive top end, and inherent distorted lo-fi "rasp", just listen to Johnny Winter. Once you go thrid market, anything can happen, for instance, Seymour Duncan minihumbuckers look like Firebird PUs, but are built more like Epiphone minihumbuckers under the cover.

 

[Wallaby]

This, 100%.

Minihumbucker is a form factor. Both the (vintage) Epiphone/Les Paul Deluxe minihumbuckers and Firebird pickups are minihumbuckers...

Similar to the way P90's and Fender-style single-coil pickups are both single-coil pickups, yet their magnet and pole construction are very different.

 

[NoTeleBob]

The FB-720 is a Firebird pickup from Epiphone.
Mine have a sticker that clearly says MINI HB.
No wonder there is confusion!
Maybe someone applied the wrong sticker and they ended up on the surplus market.

These were selling for as low as $10 each at the auction site.
Is there a cheaper pickup on the planet?
They are well made with wax potting and connectors.


View attachment 1109213

View attachment 1109211

Let me start with "If you like it, that's great".

But it's very unlikely that that's a Epiphone FB720. Nearly all the new "Epiphone" pickups on Ebay are counterfeit. Very good ones appearance wise, but counterfeit if they look new. Epiphone doesn't sell pickups separately with one exception (Probuckers).

 

[NoTeleBob]

The problem is all these names and classifications are made up by guitarists, who want to simplify everything.

Minihumbucker is a form factor. Both the (vintage) Epiphone/Les Paul Deluxe minihumbuckers and Firebird pickups are minihumbuckers...two series coils that are RW/RP from each other. WHen Gibson designed the Firebird, they want to cut costs, they the Firebird PUs were actually designed to be the cost-cutting replacement for the Epiphone minihumbucker.

The reality is that there are multiple types of minihumbuckers, especially if you throw in hybirds made by Seymour Duncan, DiMarzio, and others.

For the OP, Les Paul Deluxe minihuckers fall somewhere inbetween PAF and Strat in tone and output. They were "rounder" and more balanced than the Firebird PU. Firebird PUs had a more aggressive top end, and inherent distorted lo-fi "rasp", just listen to Johnny Winter. Once you go thrid market, anything can happen, for instance, Seymour Duncan minihumbuckers look like Firebird PUs, but are built more like Epiphone minihumbuckers under the cover.

This, 100%.



Similar to the way P90's and Fender-style single-coil pickups are both single-coil pickups, yet their magnet and pole construction are very different.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with these claims, at least historically. The Mini-Humbucker and Firebird were known by two distinct names originally.

But guitarists did mix the names due to the form factor. "Oh look, it's smaller and it's supposed to be a humbucker. It must be a mini-humbucker!". Then pickup manufacturers began to use the terms incorrectly (I'm lookin' at you, Seymour). Now it's become non-distinct. Epiphone doing that is just embarrassing - especially when the FB720 is supposed to closely model an early-ish Gibson Firebird in construction.

A mini-humbucker is still a humbucker with exposed steel pole pieces in one side, a steel slug in the other side, and a magnet below. A Firebird is still a bar magnet in each coil with a closed cover.

Unfortunatly the mixing of nomenclature forces you to actually research what's under the hood of the pickup cover in order to know which sound you're going to get.

As for @Heartbreaker_Esq's quest, I usually suggest the Mini. As others noted, the Firebird is very bright. One in the neck is like a Tele bridge pickup in the neck, without hum. If that's what you want, it's your huckleberry. A mini will give you mellow humbucker (think BB King) when dialed back just a hair on the tone; be as bright as the typical single coil all the way up, and sing like a humbucker with a little gain on the amp or a pedal.

I think you'll want something high output in the bridge to compete with it.

 

[Wallaby]

That would be interesting to see, if there's anything available?

I've looked over what Gibson catalogs from 1963 onward that I found here, and the pickups were described as "humbucking", "new design humbucking", "special design humbucking", but I haven't found "minihumbucker" or "firebird" in their descriptions yet.

The Mini-Humbucker and Firebird were known by two distinct names originally.

 

[Heartbreaker_Esq]

Well, there's enough disagreement and/or confusion on this topic that I don't feel silly for asking anymore...

 

[Wyatt]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with these claims, at least historically. The Mini-Humbucker and Firebird were known by two distinct names originally.

But, they didn't, not by Gibson. Like most things vintage guitar related, they are nicknames that were crowd-sourced over many years. Just like "Butterscotch Blonde", "TV Yellow", "Unburst", "T-Tops", etc. Things like this should not be codified because that ignores the much more nuanced reality.

 

[Rob DiStefano]

Firebirds are the only true series connected dual coil pickups that have a distinct single-coil-like tone. Call them what you like but the rubber meets the road whence you lift off the covers of both a mini-humbucker and a firebird and the internals will be quite different. They are apples and oranges. Pick the fruit that makes yer ears most happiest.

 

[NoTeleBob]

That would be interesting to see, if there's anything available?

I've looked over what Gibson catalogs from 1963 onward that I found here, and the pickups were described as "humbucking", "new design humbucking", "special design humbucking", but I haven't found "minihumbucker" or "firebird" in their descriptions yet.

Let me see what I can find for original source material.

 

[Rob DiStefano]

Mini-humbuckers are built just like standard size humbuckers, with twin bobbins where one has slugs and the other screw terminals, and a bar magnet under the bobbins powers the strings. Firebirds also have twin bobbins, but there's a bar magnet Inside each bobbin. Apples 'n' oranges.

But both have the same footprint and installation dimensions - except for Duncan Firebirds which have a smaller frame and cover, not to Gibson spex.