Did Fender roll the fretboard edges already in the 50s?

[williu]

I was wondering if any of you guys here know when guitar companies like Fender and Gibson started rolling the fingerboard edges on their guitars? I saw an American '52 RI Telecaster in the store yesterday, and noticed that the edges were heavily rounded. Much more than on my American Standard Strat (which has hand rolled fretboard edges). Were the original 52's already rolled from the factory? When did they stop doing it, or when did they start?

 

[Rhomco]

Everything was hand worked in the 50's before automated machine work. This often resulted in smoothed out edges like this in direct contrast to crisp CNC edges. Many old necks have been refretted over the years which requires more sanding at the fret ends. In more recent years players began to notice the comfort of the older well played necks and coined the description "rolled edges".
Rob

 

[Twang Tone]

I've always associated modern necks with rolled edges as replicating an old, well-played neck. But as Rhomco says, there was A LOT of hand-finishing in the 50s (check out the '54 Strat headstock images on the internet). My guess would be the original 50s necks weren't intentionally rolled to the same extent that the 52RI is today (which I think is done to give the feel of an old neck), but due to the extra hand-finishing, there probably weren't many sharp fretboard edges in the 50s either.

 

[Radspin]

Not a '50s guitar, but my 1969 Tele has noticeably rolled neck edges (it's a maple neck). However, the stock fret work was terrible!

 

[TMB1956]

I was close friends with Forrest White, plant manager at Fender from 1956-1965. I asked Forrest about this in 1980. He suggested, there was no intentional "rolling" of neck edges. But, since they were hand glued, hand assembled and hand finished back then, it varied from guitar to guitar (depending on which worker was at that step, that day, on a particular guitar). But to best answer your question, apparently it it varied a lot.

 

[TMB1956]

Not a '50s guitar, but my 1969 Tele has noticeably rolled neck edges (it's a maple neck). However, the stock fret work was terrible!

From my experience, 1967-1984 CBS Fender guitars were totally hit, and miss on quality. I mean I saw some REALLY scary "brand new" Strats and Tellys come through the stores I worked for. Towards the latter 80's Fender's quality stabilized, and they were much better quality, as they still are today.

 

[Minivan Megafun]

From my experience, 1967-1984 CBS Fender guitars were totally hit, and miss on quality. I mean I saw some REALLY scary "brand new" Strats and Tellys come through the stores I worked for. Towards the latter 80's Fender's quality stabilized, and they were much better quality, as they still are today.

That's why it's both scary and hilarious that you're seeing late 60's and early 70's Fenders going for upwards of $10,000 now.

 

[toomuchfun]

I think the modern rolled edges started in the custom shop, which started around 1987. Not saying they did it right away, but I remember an ad that mentioned this on a custom shop model and a few years later it was a standard feature.

 

[TMB1956]

I don't remember ANY of the Fenders I worked on back then, having deliberately rolled edges.
It may well have started with the Custom Shop!

 

[TMB1956]

That's why it's both scary and hilarious that you're seeing late 60's and early 70's Fenders going for upwards of $10,000 now.

I remember in the early 80's looking at dozens of slightly used (but pristine) 70's (CBS) era Stratocasters, which you could find dirt cheap because nobody wanted anything newer than a 1967 (because of what CBS had done to them to save money). Leo and Forrest had completely left the company by then and things were spiraling quickly. It wasn't until the late-80s that things really leveled out again at Fender.

At the time you could fit 2 credit cards in the gap between the neck pocket and the neck on both sides of the neck pocket of a brand new (CBS era) guitar! Marketing ideas like "bi-flex" truss rods and "micro adjusters" were "cheap & easy" fixes to try and compensate for poor quality sloppy parts (made with worn down tooling). Tooling that CBS execs didn't want to spend the money on to repair and/or replace (at the time). I can't imagine people paying $10 grand for one. Oh well.... Live and learn...

 

[Wound_Up]

I can remember in the early 80's looking at several slightly used (but pristine) 70's era Stratocasters, which you could find dirt cheap because nobody wanted anything newer than a 1967 (because of what CBS had done to them to save money). Leo and Forrest had left the company by then and things were spiraling quickly.

I remember you could fit 2 credit cards in the gap between the neck pocket and the neck on both sides of the cavity of a brand new guitar. Marketing ideas like "bi-flex" truss rods and "micro adjusters" were cheap & easy ways to try and compensate for poor quality parts (made with worn down tooling) that they didn't want to spend the money on to repair and/or replace. I can't imagine someone considering one of those guitars collectible, other than hanging one on your wall as art?

Good thing we aren't all you lol

 

[TMB1956]

Good thing we aren't all you lol

I'm a nobody. But, I started playing guitar in 1967, and later I worked at CBS Fender! Then I worked at MusicMan, later at G&L with Leo. I only know what I saw. But, feel free to stock up on those 70's era Fender guitars. As you said "Good thing we aren't all you lol"

 

[Chicken Curry]

If it wasn't intentional then could the Custom Shop please stop doing this?! I've passed on Custom Shop Fenders because of this, it makes it very annoying to play. Very little roll is OK, enough to not hurt your hand.

 

[Boreas]

I very much doubt there was a "thing" in pre-CBS Fenders as "rolled edges". A particular worker may have softened them more than another worker, but I doubt there was an intention to roll all of them, other than to keep them smooth. My understanding is "rolling" today is done simply to emulate a "comfortable" heavily-used neck (worn, refretted, etc.), not to emulate a new, production neck. I rolled a couple cheap necks, and now wish I had that real estate back.

 

[MatthewK]

I'm a nobody. But, I started playing guitar in 1967, and later I worked at CBS Fender! Then I worked at MusicMan, later at G&L with Leo. I only know what I saw. But, feel free to stock up on those 70's era Fender guitars. As you said "Good thing we aren't all you lol"

Nice pic! And I’ll admit I have a 78 Musicmaster I love.

 

[TMB1956]

Nice pic! And I’ll admit I have a 78 Musicmaster I love.

They weren't ALL bad. loll Lots of beautiful guitars came from that era! It's just that they were a lot harder to find. The ones that are still around these days (as working guitars), are generally the better ones from back then. (In my humble opinion) A skilled luthier can take any vintage guitar (no matter what condition it's in now) and make it great with enough time and money.

 

[TMB1956]

I very much doubt there was a "thing" in pre-CBS Fenders as "rolled edges". A particular worker may have softened them more than another worker, but I doubt there was an intention to roll all of them, other than to keep them smooth. My understanding is "rolling" today is done simply to emulate a "comfortable" heavily-used neck (worn, refretted, etc.), not to emulate a new, production neck. I rolled a couple cheap necks, and now wish I had that real estate back.

According to Forrest White (one of my best friends in the early 80's) it started because a couple of the workers started adding a little more roundness to the neck edges, in the sanding department. It just gradually became a part of the process. No actual "let's start rounding the neck edges more" plan.

Personally, I like the edges rolled in a way that compromises very little board surface. Just take the sharp edge off (if needed). That's why I prefer to buy guitars that are NOT pre-rolled and do it myself. But, that's just an old man rambling... loll

 

[Timbresmith1]

According to Forrest White (one of my best friends in the early 80's) it started because a couple of the workers started adding a little more roundness to the neck edges, in the sanding department. It just gradually became a part of the process. No actual "let's start rounding the neck edges more" plan.

Personally, I like the edges rolled in a way that compromises very little board surface. Just take the sharp edge off (if needed). That's why I prefer to buy guitars that are NOT pre-rolled and do it myself. But, that's just an old man rambling... loll

The “Roll yer own”

 

[Boreas]

According to Forrest White (one of my best friends in the early 80's) it started because a couple of the workers started adding a little more roundness to the neck edges, in the sanding department. It just gradually became a part of the process. No actual "let's start rounding the neck edges more" plan.

Personally, I like the edges rolled in a way that compromises very little board surface. Just take the sharp edge off (if needed). That's why I prefer to buy guitars that are NOT pre-rolled and do it myself. But, that's just an old man rambling... loll

For me, it has a lot to do with the neck shape. To me, a baseball bat doesn't really need the edges rolled while a low-profile neck often is more comfortable rolled - or vicey-versey for another player. The problem is, modern rolled necks often have a shallow bevel on the fret ends, which, while comfy, often correlates to playability issues with either E string falling off the edge. And with a steeper bevel, then the fret ends can be uncomfortable.

 

[willietheweirdo]

Someday I will tell my grandkids that I saw a guy throw down a real "Friend of Leo's" card at TDPRI

That'll be a part of the "you might not know who/what you're talking to/about and it's no skin off your nose to be respectful to everyone" lesson...