1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

Did all this music start here?

Discussion in 'Music to Your Ears' started by peteb, Oct 13, 2015.

  1. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,208
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2003
    Location:
    Cascadia
    Blues, late 19th century, southern US

    Jazz, early 20th century, US

    Country, 1920s, southern US (+Appalachia)

    Western, 1940s, western us

    Rock and roll, late 1940s, US


    All of these music styles have folk music influence, but what music doesn't?

    These music styles have roots in different places like Europe and Africa, but they did not come into their own until they came togethor in the us.

    Is it a distorted view point to believe that all of these popular music styles began in the US?

    my source is wikipedia
     
  2. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,208
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2003
    Location:
    Cascadia
    More

    Boogie woogie, late 19th century, piney woods northwest Texas

    Gospel music, 1st qtr 20th century, US

    Appalachian, 1920s, Appalachia

    Swing, 1930s, US

    Rhythm and blues, 1940s, US

    Reggae, late 1960s, Jamaica, Kingston (still America)

    Disco, late 1960s, early 1970s, us

    Punk rock, mid 1970s, US, UK, AUS

    Hip hop, 1970s, the Bronx

    Industrial, 1970s, UK, Germany
    New wave, late 1970s, US, UK
     
  3. Obsessed

    Obsessed Telefied Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    25,136
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Location:
    Montana
    This should turn into an interesting thread overnight. ;)
     
  4. Rayner

    Rayner Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    267
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Location:
    Somerset England
    I like how the US gets all the good music the shares the blame for punk rock, industrial and New wave! :eek:
     
  5. Mr. Lumbergh

    Mr. Lumbergh Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    7,937
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Location:
    Initech, Inc.
    The US was the only place where you had the large-scale mixing of African musical traditions with the European at that time; that's the only way most of those, especially Jazz, Blues, Rock, and even Country (the Banjo is derived from a West African instrument) could ever have developed.
     
  6. fatcat

    fatcat Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,139
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2010
    Location:
    Very Deep South
    The blues was born in Mississippi. I don't know it for a fact; but that's what I believe.
     
  7. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,208
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2003
    Location:
    Cascadia
    Part of the surprise to me is that all of these styles are to have started in the 20th century or right before, even though they all have roots going further back.

    Since a lot of music styles started in the 1900s, it must have a lot to do with the commercialization of music. The century started with the phonograph and then radio came along.

    I find it interesting that both European and African influences crossed the Atlantic and merged here to form blues, jazz etc, when they could have combined over there. But as Mr. L points out, there was more mixing here.

    Per the source, the U.S. did NOT have a share in industrial, but yes for the others.

    I agree, The blues Is recognized as starting in Mississippi.
     
  8. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,208
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2003
    Location:
    Cascadia
    i like how the music keeps crossing the atlantic.

    our original music came from europe, like traditional irish folk ballads, the music gets mixed with other cultures and crosses the atlantic, white boys in england listen to and copy american black musicians, that music crosses the atlantic and the US goes crazy over it. those same musicians come to the US and pick up on american culture and put it into their music.

    my favorite example is Phil Lynott of thin lizzy, an Irishman of African descent, singing about bustin broncs in the american west in The Cowboy Song

     
  9. Paul in Colorado

    Paul in Colorado Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    23,351
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    R.I.P. 2019
    Jamaica is part of the US? When did that happen?

    Hawaiian music started in Hawaii, but it wasn't a state in the early 20th century when the Hawaiian music craze came to America.
     
  10. Horsefighter

    Horsefighter Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    272
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Location:
    California
    Weird food for thought. An American music history scholar/expert did a lecture in my American Roots class, and basically debunked the myth that our early national music was derived from Irish/Scottish songs. The earliest copies of American composed songs we still have apparently bear basically no relation to those cultures. Blew my mind as I always assumed this to be true.
     
  11. Larry F

    Larry F Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    Posts:
    16,722
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Location:
    Iowa City, IA
    If you'd care to share the person's name or names of publications, that would be very interesting to me. You can PM me, if you like.

    I've gone to tons of talks by music historians, theorists, and others in the academic environment. I have found that for every widely shared belief, there are scholars who attempt to debunk it, sometimes with devastating effect. Sometimes the new model is adopted "permanently," sometimes it is held with a certain amount of suspicion, and sometimes it is eventually disregarded as the earlier model is restored as a basic belief.

    I'm not criticizing this particular belief at all. I don't have the background to evaluate the truth of it at all, and can only go by what I think most of the people that I respect think about it. Playing it safe, I know, but it is a stance that has worked for me. But, I also don't care if my personal conjecture is shown to be unsupported. When that happens, which it does quite frequently, it is usually no skin off my teeth if I have to change beliefs. Perhaps "beliefs" is too strong a word.
     
  12. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    22,290
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Location:
    Detroit
    ^^^^ A lot of Appalachian music was.

    Same damn songs in some instances - just twisted up some. Especially the acapella stuff.




    Techno - yes. Industrial ? Probably those industrious Germans but - I don't care about sub-genres and there's no place in music where it's more needlessly broken up into little cubes than in electronic music.
     
  13. codamedia

    codamedia Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    5,294
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Location:
    Western Canada
    Music of many styles was brought to America by immigrants from dozens of different country's. It is the merging of those influences that created those earlier popular genres.

    All music is just an evolution and merging of earlier styles. What Rock 'n Roll ultimately became bared little resemblance to the early Bill Haley, Elvis, Little Richard, Chuck Berry that started it all. The British should be getting some credit for it's involvement of the evolution.

    It should also be noted that the popular genres listed are not popular everywhere. Is a genre only considered popular when America says it's popular? There is a big world of music beyond America... and yes, it is popular - just not here.

    Just my 2 cents...
     
  14. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    34,021
    Joined:
    May 2, 2003
    Location:
    Wisco
    "What Rock 'n Roll ultimately became bared little resemblance to the early Bill Haley, Elvis, Little Richard, Chuck Berry that started it all."

    I respectfully disagree. Those artists you mentioned, the music they did, that is Rock 'n Roll. What came later was not Rock n Roll, and it's not what Rock n Roll became, either. Rock n Roll lives on it's own, unchanged and forever.

    In my opinion.

    I do agree that the two bare little resemblance to each other

    Really we are probably not disagreeing at all. I just always bristle at even the slightest implication that "Rock" music is Rock 'n Roll :lol: It is so very NOT.
     
  15. codamedia

    codamedia Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    5,294
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Location:
    Western Canada
    Personally, I think we are on the same page... One influences the next and music evolves... that's all I'm saying. In no way am I downplaying the importance of those early rock n' roll artists...
     
  16. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    34,021
    Joined:
    May 2, 2003
    Location:
    Wisco
    yeah codamedia, sorry, you awoke the rock n roll police in me ("why yes, as a matter of fact, I AM the rock n' roll police"). we are all good. :lol:
     
  17. ItchyFingers

    ItchyFingers Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,651
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2013
    Location:
    Ottawa Ontario Canada
    I vote we eliminate all genre naming and give credit where credit is due.
    It all started with a drummer. This did not occur in the USA.
    Whoever invented Presidential funk (Pfunk) was one cool individual though.
     
  18. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    34,021
    Joined:
    May 2, 2003
    Location:
    Wisco
    Elvis's early Sun Sessions had no drummer
     
  19. hymiepab

    hymiepab Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    380
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Location:
    Hartford CT
    Beyond the roots of each genre, the recording industry was the largest in the U.S. and sold product by giving names to cross cultural types of music names intended for a specific audience.
    I think the roots came from all over, but the recording industry was very important in the distillation into specific types of music.
     
  20. Telemarkman

    Telemarkman Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    73
    Posts:
    18,050
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Location:
    Norway
    You got it!
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.