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Deluxe Reverb Tube Replacement JJ vs Tung-Sol

Discussion in 'Glowing Bottle Tube Amp Forum' started by Recce, Dec 12, 2019.

  1. rolandson

    rolandson Tele-Holic

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    Meaning he "bought" it, or "bought" the right to use it. He didn't create it. Just as he did with the Mullard name.

    Funny how he did that after tanking the first iteration of electro harmonix, or rather screwing the people he owed, then, it seems, selling what rightfully belonged to them to Akai...
    Just another NYC billionaire doing what they do best.

    As for bringing russian tubes to the west...we have this...

    https://www.abandonedspaces.com/public/atlas-i.html

    ...and it's russian counterpart to thank for both the influx of JAN and the eventual russian equivalent. Tubes were uniquely capable of withstanding the EMP (electromagnetic pulse) of a nuclear detonation...

    Until they weren't...unique in that regard. Something that the linked structure, and the research it was used for, ushered in.

    They, the super power military machines, had to do something with the tubes they no longer wanted. The russians had so many more only because of their QC issues.

    But any suggestion that the rubbish he produces in his former russian military factory resembles anything close to the originals whose names he prints on them is absolute fiction.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2019
  2. alnico357

    alnico357 Tele-Afflicted

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    Are you saying JJ 6V6 tubes stay clean longer and distort less?
     
  3. Teleguy61

    Teleguy61 Friend of Leo's

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    More that they are a "harder" sound than, for example, an RCA 6V6.
    Personal opinion only, I didn't like them.
    If I want that sound I will put a nice set of 6L6/5881s in a 6V6 amp. That seems to work.
     
  4. alnico357

    alnico357 Tele-Afflicted

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    I don't know what a "harder" sound means.
     
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  5. jjmmuir

    jjmmuir TDPRI Member

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    Perhaps more mids and less sparkle & chime?
     
  6. jjmmuir

    jjmmuir TDPRI Member

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    Can I ask whether anyone replacing tubes has noticed a reduction in self-noise on the DRRI. I'm trying to bring down the idle hiss of the amp by about 50% and feel that strategic tube replacement might just get me there.

    (For the record the amp is new and the hiss is apparently 'as expected')

    Thoughts/experiences gratefully received.

    Thanks
     
  7. radiocaster

    radiocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    Sorry for this, I guess it's really relative.

    I put in Tung Sol 12AX7s in one amp and I really like them in there. It does give more midrange in any case.
     
  8. JayFreddy

    JayFreddy Poster Extraordinaire

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    Don't overlook the Shuguang 12ax7s.

    I like the JJ 6V6 power tubes a lot.

    JJ 12ax7s are okay, but in the same price range, I prefer Shuguang 12ax7a's.

    Like many of you, I have been repeatedly disappointed by new production tubes, especially from China.

    I was pleasantly surprised how good the new Shuguang 12ax7a's sound.

    These are light years ahead of the old "Ruby" Chinese 12ax7s.

    The ones I got came in a box that looks like this:

    Screenshot_20200130-035622.png
     
  9. JayFreddy

    JayFreddy Poster Extraordinaire

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    Btw, Forgive me for stating the obvious, but different amps will sound different with the same tubes.

    Even the same amp with the same tubes will sound different with a different player, playing style, venue, and volume level.

    Threads like this tend to deteriorate into maxims, eg, "these are best", without considering the variables.

    I have two DRs, an 74 original and a 68 RI. They are similar yet they are not the same amp.

    I rarely turn them up past three, and I get my dirt from pedals.

    For my purposes, the Shuguang 12ax7s and JJ 6V6s do a good job in the 68 RI..

    I could see spending a little extra on a NOS 12ax7 for V1, but for now I'm happy with what I've got.

    For myself, I see no reason to change preamp tubes that I am currently happy with.

    Ps. The 74 has all the original Philips RCA tubes. All tubes test strong. Had em tested when i had it recapped.

    Ain't broke, dont fix it.
     
  10. Ascension

    Ascension Tele-Afflicted

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    JJ's can work well in some amps are horrible in others.
    The Pre amp tubes in particular are quite dark sounding and in the wrong rig will make an amp very dull muddy and lifeless. They can be great when you are trying to take the edge off a bright amp and fatten up a tone but for many amps a full set of JJ's in the pre is like dropping a blanket over the amp tone wise. Would NOT recommend a set of JJ's in the preamp of a Deluxe Reverb in particular. The reissue Tung Sols or Mullards IMO would be a MUCH better tonal fit in that amp!!A full set of JJ's in the Pre on that amp will likely make it dark and muddy.

    Have boxes of preamp tubes that I use to tailor my amps tones so---.
    For the Deluxe would recommend the Tung Sol or the Mullard reissues in the pre amp in current production tubes.
    Have no experience with the JJ 6V6's as have not owned a 6V6 amp in many years but have had good luck with some of the JJ Power tubes like the EL34's and 6L6's but not so much with the JJ EL84's in my amps.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
  11. Ascension

    Ascension Tele-Afflicted

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    You must not have bought JJ's in a while then as their quality control on bulk tubes has gone to absolute CRAP!! ONLY buy JJ's from a reputable dealer who burns in grades and tests JJ preamp tubes.
    Lot of early failures and noise issues right now with them from the bulk dealers. Just bought a new PRS MT 15 last May had a full set of JJ's and while they sound good in this particular amp have had 2 preamp tube failures already out of the 6.
    The current Tung Sols and Mullards from New Sensor have been much more reliable and consistent from my experience than most current new production tubes. At lease for now this seems to change so--. Own 6 tube rigs ( 2 Boogies ( DC-5 head Subway Rocket combo), 2 PRS amps ( MT 15 and 50 watt Archon heads), Zinky Blue Velvet and an old Carvin X50 B Hot Rod Head)and gig with them often so---.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
  12. Milspec

    Milspec Poster Extraordinaire

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    JJ for 6V6 is the route to take. As for preamps, NOS 12At7 tubes, pick your poison on the 12AX7 tubes according to tone goals.

    Just understand that there are only a couple of plants building tubes these days and most brands are owned by the same company and they all like to invoke old NOS names for tubes that were considered great quality, but the new production are in name only as they purchased the expired trademarks. Also, rebranded tubes (Groove, Mesa, TAD) are all rebranding Chinese tubes which I feel are cheap tubes. You pay for that rebranding and the claims that they are picking the best of the bunch and do all sorts of quality testing, but in the end, they are just Chinese tubes.

    I don't chase vintage tubes any longer (burned too many times), but I will always choose a NOS Jan-Phillips 12AT7 tube for their robustness and they are inexpensive as well.
     
  13. Milspec

    Milspec Poster Extraordinaire

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    New Sensor owns JJ as well these days, so quality shouldn't be any different. I only have 2 amps running 6V6's these days (Brownface Princeton clone and modified '64 Bandmaster Quad 6V6) and only run JJ tubes in the power section. I have not run into any failures on either amps...even with the recent set of tubes in the Princeton. I prefer Tung-Sols with 6L6 tubes, but the JJ 6V6 has always been my favorite choice in modern production.

    (Edit: JJ tubes are a product of Slovakia and everything else comes from either Russia or China under various names. I forget the brand out of Canada, but I don't know if they even exist any longer. Anyway, the New Sensor Corp. is a company out of Long Island that has been buying up the tube plants in Russia and importing the tubes leaving JJ and the Chinese as the only other players for years, but if you look up New Sensor Corps profile you will se that they list the following brands as being under their corporate umbrella now: Electro-Harmonix, Tung-Sol, Mullard, Genalex, Gold Lion, Sovtek, Sino-China, and yes...Tesla / JJ. So really, I don't think there is going to be much difference in quality standards...just different tube designs for different tone colorings.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
  14. Ascension

    Ascension Tele-Afflicted

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    Knew they changed ownership didn't know who got them. May have been when this happened but a BUNCH of bulk JJ's got dumped on the market that had not been screened well so they were a real crap shoot for a while in quality. Had good luck before with JJ's but the last batch I got off ebay plus what was in the Chinese import MT 15 PRS were not stellar. Microphonics and frying noise issues I have seen with the last batches. Out of the 6 in the MT15 I have seen one go microphonic and one start frying since I got that amp in May. This is why I said use a dealer who tests and does a burn in!!
     
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  15. ArcticWhite

    ArcticWhite Tele-Afflicted

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    You didn't get 'em all, Much.
    I know, because I have a box in the garage. ;)
     
  16. Milspec

    Milspec Poster Extraordinaire

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    You are likely correct, could very well be a lot of factory seconds got dumped onto the market just like what happened at the end of the winged "C" tubes era.
     
  17. rolandson

    rolandson Tele-Holic

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    I don't think that they do.

    JJ entered into a distribution arrangement with New Sensor, but according to a primary US distributor (Eurotubes, aka a fellow named Robert, who happens to live near me and is a pretty terrific resource for amp knowledge...as well as having been rather close to a guy named Jan Jurcho, aka JJ), Tomas Jurcho rather jealousy clings to his company's independence especially after its founder, his father, passed away in 2013.

    Robert was emphatic when I asked; New Sensor doesn't own any part of JJ.

    But it apparently surprises no one that Matthews (New Sensor) would want to create that impression.

    Don't hold back, tell us what you really think!

    Read the paragraph above...the part about a distribution agreement with Mike Matthews -ala- New Sensor. It might explain the reason for the troubles you've encountered.

    I live a couple of miles from one of the primary importers of JJ's. Been a visitor at his home a bunch of times since first meeting him in the mid nineties. Of late, I've been playing tube rolling experiments with JJ's for about a year...generally buy a batch every few months.

    I've found them to be a consistently excellent tube.
     
  18. Milspec

    Milspec Poster Extraordinaire

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    Thanks for the correction, but how would New Sensor's distribution explain an experienced decline in quality of a tube they are not manufacturing? If the poster has been experiencing a rash of bad tubes, that would go back to the maker and not the middle-man seller. The only exception would be if JJ was selling factory seconds to that distributor or something.

    I have had very good luck with JJ power tubes and will continue to use them, but they are prone to issues like any other manufacturer.
     
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  19. rolandson

    rolandson Tele-Holic

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    I can't explain it. Nor have I experienced it. But I've only acquired tubes from the single source and...?

    I've also come to take pretty much everything associated with New Sensor with a large degree of skepticism...distrust if you will. I don't think I would had Matthews used his own brand on the tubes he sells instead of using other's to create an image of quality that seems to be in name only.
     
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  20. trxx

    trxx Tele-Afflicted

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    What's your reasoning for that? I can't say that I know anything much about the various tube companies. I just wish they would get it together and make some really high quality tubes that aren't NOS priced.
     
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