DeArmond single coils

Discussion in 'Just Pickups' started by cabra velha, Jan 30, 2018.

  1. cabra velha

    cabra velha Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

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    I admit I've been attracted to the tone of DeArmonds for years now, although I'm not really into roots rock or rockabilly that much.

    [​IMG]

    What makes them different or similar to Tele or Strat single coils?

    They all look like surface-mount to me, is there any way to adjust height on them if one were to mount one on, say a Tele pickguard?
     
  2. Andy B

    Andy B Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Original Dynasonics are not surface mount. the magnets and adjustment screw go down into the body. On mine I drilled and tapped 3-48 holes in the frame and installed the pickup to my pickguard. This pickup has been in one or another of my Tele's since 1972.


    DSC_3400aa.JPG
     
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  3. superbadj

    superbadj Poster Extraordinaire

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    So a few things.

    1: There are DeArmond 2000s, and DeArmond 2Ks. They are not the same pickups, not at all. Here's some info from Bill Turner from Fender:

    There have been lots of discussions about the DeArmond 2000 pickups that were used in the 512X and Historic lines and by now everyone should be straight on the differences between the 2000 and the 2K etc., but I found this text from a post by Bill Turner who worked on the design at Fender. As I understand it, Bill is no longer with us and I couldn't find the original post, hence the quote here; hope that is OK.

    "Here's the story. The De Armond 2K and 2000 are wholly different animals. The 2K is configured like a P-90. Marketing wanted to create a jazz style pickup for the DeArmond guitars, and wanted to use the 2000 format. Personally, I would have liked to seen us release a RI 2000 to the market on a MIA guitar initially. This would have avoided some of the confusion that now exists between the models.

    The De Armond guitar line took priority, and that meant that the 2K was developed first. There were no plans from marketing at the time to further develop the 2000.

    As the 2k model began to come together, I and a good friend in R&D went ahead and designed parts for the 2000, and added these to the final set of drawings. Although there were no plans to use the parts that were designed for the 2000, they would be there when the time came.

    The opportunity came last year when Gretsch approached Fender about using the 2K on thier guitars. Gretsch assumed that the pickup we were making for De Armond was a 2000 type model, and yes, it looks like one, but we knew that the 2K would not compliment the original Gretsch sound. This gave us the chance to push for the production of the 2000 and deliver it to Gretsch in the original 2000 config. The distiguishing feature for the Gretsch`s is that the 2000 does not sport the De Armond logo.

    As we began to produce the 2000, interest grew to include the Guild Custom Shop, The Fender Custom Shop, and Guild guitars. So far, the exposure for the 2000 has been limited, but we are trying to expand it`s role on the guitar.

    As I said, the 2K is configured like a P-90. The pole pieces and pole adjust screws are steel. The poles extend through the bobbin where they are trapped between a pair of like pole Alnico 5 bar magnets. The bobbin is surrounded by a thin steel U channel from below the bobbin to enhance the pickups inductance.

    DC resistance: 7.4K Inductance: 6 Henries 43 gage magnet wire

    The sound is like a P-90, in that it is a very fat single coil, but not quite as heavy as a P-90.

    The 2000 uses only 1/4 inch Alnico 5 pole pieces in the bobbin, the sound is bright with that great rockabilly snap.

    DC resistance: 8.85K Inductance: 3.55 Henries 44 gage magnet wire

    Hope this does it.

    Bill Turner"

    DeArmond 2000s are definitely super clear, articulate, bright, punchy. 2Ks are more P90-like overall. Less articulate, a bit rawer.

    As for comparing to a Tele pickup, they're night-and-day frankly. Different materials all around, different design, resulting in a different sound. I love both (teles and 2000s, not the 2Ks as much) and find they do different things.
     
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  4. superbadj

    superbadj Poster Extraordinaire

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    Yep. So the "original" pickups were DeArmond 200s I think, which Gretsch today calls "Dynasonics". Look similar above the guitar body, but the guts are different. The Dynasonics are quite a bit deeper (physically) as noted.

    Sound-wise dynasonics are similar to 2000s. Again, 2Ks are quite different.

    I own one guitar with Dynasonics and several guitars with 2000s.
     
  5. charlie chitlin

    charlie chitlin Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    They're not just for Gretsches!
    One of the best-kept tone secrets.
    Shhhhh.....
    I have a set of modern DeArmond 2000s...not to be confused with 2ks (both came on lower end Asian guitars), and I found them to compare VERY favorably with 50s Dynas I have/had.
    The 2000s and 2ks are flush surface mount. 001.JPG
     
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  6. cabra velha

    cabra velha Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

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    My first exposure was to Dynasonic style on a vintage Gretsch, I think both Lollar and TV Jones make versions and I wonder how they might compare with the more recent DeArmond 2000s
     
  7. charlie chitlin

    charlie chitlin Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    I have a '53 Electro II and have had a 57 Firebird Jet...I think the 2000s compare very favorably.
    They turned my lowly 5120 into a monster.
    I'll try to figure out how to upload a clip...
    DSCN2586.JPG
     
  8. charlie chitlin

    charlie chitlin Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Here ya go...
    5120 with 2000s
     
  9. electroman

    electroman TDPRI Member

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    I'd like to fine a set of rthe 2000s in gold, or just a neck pickup.
     
  10. Uncle Daddy

    Uncle Daddy Tele-Afflicted

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    I mostly hang on the Gretsch forums. The Dearmond 2000 is generally considered an "ok" pickup, albeit a bit inferior to the regular Dynasonic. I found them a bit thin, but preferred them to Filtertrons, mainly because they deliver that single coil snap that buckers just won't.

    The 2000 isn't quite a true surface mount as they sit on spacers to allow room for stuff on the underside.
    2000.jpg

    The regular Dynasonic, which the 2000 emulates, has the height adjusting mechanism below the underside. For hollowbody guitars it's a non-issue; even the Duo jet is a routed semi-hollow, so there's lots of room for the lifters. TV Jones produces the T-Armond, based on the Dynasonic but with shorter height adjusters, mostly to reduce hi-gain squeal. You can see the difference here...

    tvj.jpg

    TV also supplies these in a soapbar mount, which can be useful. The gold 2000's were only fitted to the now rare cat's eye soundhole Historic G3156 range, which had a short shelf life. TV Jones will supply the T-Armond in a gold finish for around $120 each.
     
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  11. jhundt

    jhundt Doctor of Teleocity

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    wow, I just came across this - I'm late to the party, as usual! This is some good stuff, that guitar sounds really nice. What amp did you use Charlie?
     
  12. charlie chitlin

    charlie chitlin Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Thanks.
    I like the way that one came out.
    That's a 56 Deluxe.
     
  13. jhundt

    jhundt Doctor of Teleocity

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    nice! I have a Gretsch 5129 w/ DeArmond 2000 pickups, and a 1955 Deluxe, but for some reason I have never tried them together. I guess I better do that!
     
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  14. charlie chitlin

    charlie chitlin Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    I love those 2000s!
    I just put one in a chambered Lester and am on the lookout for another.]
    001.JPG
     
  15. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    I like them as well in my 5127 and Guild DeArmond M75T.
     
  16. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    I like them as well in my 5127 and Guild DeArmond M75T.
     
  17. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Dynasonics are some of my favorite single coils, and I’ve plunged into trying as many versions as possible. I dropped a Gretsch Dynasonic in the neck position of one of my Teles, paired with a TV Jones Starwood Tele bridge. A great combo, but not a straight Tele sound. Like folks say, a bigger ‘Tele on steroids’ sound. The neck has the Strat thing going on, but with plenty of bass on tap from both pickups.

    So, between this, the T-Armonds in my ‘53VS Duo Jet, the DeArmond 2000s in my Special Jet, and even the T-A T-series in my G5420, I have to say something like a T-Armond neck pickup in the bridge and a Gretsch Dynasonic in the neck would be a “best of all worlds” right now. My mind and ears will change, I’m certain of that, but right now I can’t say a bad thing about any of them, all great pickups.

    Note, the big elevator mechanism will squeal, and those ginormous slugs will pull your strings out of wack. Also, I’ve spent a lot of time adjusting the heights and tweaking the rod heights...there are sweet spots to be had, but the best thing I did when I found them was mount them to a hard surface, no foam risers for me.
     
  18. nic'o'caster

    nic'o'caster Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

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    Love the 2000 that are in my Gretsch 5129, they sound full, clear, fat in the neck position and twangy in the bridge position (both pups together is still the best one !). They don't have much complexity but their punch and clarity make them perfect for clean tones ! Have no idea how they would sound on a Tele but I bet it would be interesting !

    Some pretty good info here too :
    http://www.the-jime.dk/Rockabilly_Guitar.htm#PIU
     
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