Dead note... Any tips?

[FortyEight]

I feel like I either didn't notice this before I goofed up my Squier. I tried putting on .11's with the heavier 5th and 6th string and I shimmed the neck and I got a dead spot on 1st string 3rd fret.

I just looked at the frets and they are level. It's not buzzing. It just doesn't ring as good as the rest. And it does it a little up around the 16th, 17th fret. They still ring but there at like 75% of the rest of them and you can really tell when playing an open G chord. LOL.

Ugh.

Any tips on this and anyone else have this happen. I took the shim out and put the normal .11's back on and it's still doing it. Maybe it's just the weather.

I was liking this guitar........ Grrrrrrrr......

 

[pbenn]

A possible idea is you now don't have enough relief, but it happened going heavier on string gauge, which is counter intuitive.

Is the next fret up that sounds well too high? Yes, you said all frets were level. Just spitballing here.

 

[Lowerleftcoast]

If the reason for the dead spot is not obvious (fret related problems), I would start with the bridge. Most of the strat trem bridges can be improved.

It makes a huge difference to install a higher mass trem block. In lieu of a new trem block, I shaped and glued a piece of metal to the trem block of a Squire Bullet. It has been transformed into a very playable guitar.

The mating surface of the trem block to bridge is never full contact from the factory. Even some of the expensive strats have a bad mating surface here. Sanding/lapping those surfaces makes another big difference. The full contact surface keeps the trem block vibrating with the bridge instead of moving at odds with the bridge. When you think the surfaces mate well, hold the bridge up to a light source and look for light making it through the contact surface gap. Keep working the surfaces until you can no longer see light through the gap. Make sure the screws hold the trem block securely to the bridge.

The saddles need to be inspected for good contact with the bridge as well.

Inspect that the saddles break over string angles are not damping the string.

Check that the ball ends of the strings are sitting in the trem block properly.

Check the springs from the trem block to body are in good shape/tension.

Next, I would focus on the neck mating surface. Anytime there is contact between surfaces you want the vibrations to transfer to the other surface the best it can. Full contact is always best.

 

[charlie chitlin]

Any time there's a problem at both ends of the neck, look to the truss rod.
There are necks with dead spots.
Try putting a c-clamp on the headstock and see if that makes it go away.
It can also be a poor fret/fretboard interface.
You could try wicking some water thin cy/super glue under the fret.
In some maple necks you would need to cut away the finish where it meets the fret do the glue can get in there.
Run the glue along the fret and wipe with naphtha.

 

[FortyEight]

I will try these ideas. Thank you. FWIW the bridge is decked. And the springs are new ish. Like this year bought. I thought it was playing fine until I did the whole string change.. Grrrrrrr.....

I'm not exactly sure what "Inspect that the saddles break over string angles are not damping the strings" but obviosly it's got something to do with the saddles and making sure they string resonate. I wouldn't think the problem would be there cuz literally every other note on that string is fine. It does get a little dead on the G string high up too.... I forget exactly which frets. It seemed like a few of them around 16/17.

 

[Matthias]

This could be a saddle screw that doesn't quite touch the plate, it could be the saddle vibrating against the one next to it. Try playing it with your pinking pushing the saddle in towards the others and you'll hear if it's one of those. A high fret can be invisible to the naked eye so if you haven't already, check with a level.

Could be problem on the actual fret surface, or a stretched area of the string.

Mysterious dead notes can also be the fault of pickups that are jacked way too high. But you normally only get that if they're WAY too high and not that low down the neck. The most dramatic effect that can have are two high frets sounding the same note... But as you said the G has issues high up that could be a lead.

 

[Peegoo]

The very first thing to do when you encounter dead spots after changing strings is replace the string that's not properly sounding.

 

[MatsEriksson]

I feel like I either didn't notice this before I goofed up my Squier. I tried putting on .11's with the heavier 5th and 6th string and I shimmed the neck and I got a dead spot on 1st string 3rd fret.

I just looked at the frets and they are level. It's not buzzing. It just doesn't ring as good as the rest. And it does it a little up around the 16th, 17th fret. They still ring but there at like 75% of the rest of them and you can really tell when playing an open G chord. LOL.

Ugh.

Any tips on this and anyone else have this happen. I took the shim out and put the normal .11's back on and it's still doing it. Maybe it's just the weather.

I was liking this guitar........ Grrrrrrrr......

well first thing:

1. Can you remember if the dead spot was there BEFORE you changed strings?

Recently I bought a EBMM Valentine that had a pesky spot up there, and it was the string (plain at that one) that did have a lump, and as such weren't uniform gauge in that spot. Changed strings and it was gone. This was a brand new set.

2. Is the dead note/tone equally heard as "dead one" on other parts of the neck on other strings? I e the same frequency regardless of string or position

Then it's not a resonancy of the neck thing, and any kind of clamping or heavy or changing bridges will be a moot excercise in futility. Clamping the headstock, will just MOVE the dead spot around then. None other thing than completely remove the headstock will remedy this.

3. The actual fret wire has uneven "top spot" so to speak, and the string resides on a smaller surface area than the rest. It is hard to detect, but one thing to try is to retune the string and see if the dead spot follows along the neck, i e occurs on another fret, or that it is on that fret all of the time even if you put on a G-string instead in that slot and compare the fret.

4. The actual fret has happened to grow air bubbles or air pocket underneath and is not solidly connected with fretboard wood. It can turn loose eventually. Some fret saws saw a straight slot through the radiused fretboard and as such when you press down a fretwire with radius, it causes a slight gap in the middle and all of the fretboard doesn't engulf the fret tang as tight as possible.

There's a lot of trial, and exclusion checks you can do. Is it as simple as downtuning or tuning up the string and the dead spot has moved to the 5th fret.

 

[That Cal Webway]

I know quite a bit about setup and repair, although I limit my invasive stuff to level and crowns on cheap stuff.

Oh my good American Strat that sounds fantastic, there is a dead note right in the center of the neck on the D string.
It's been level and crowned and the relief is a little bit less than 10 etc. No issues on set up.

I have a broken Snark where the tuner part is broken off. Playing around I attached that to the headstock and believe it or not-- eliminated that dead spot!

That's kind of funny because it's not heavy-ish at all like a C clamp or a Fathead.
UGLY but it works!!
.

 

[Boreas]

I feel like I either didn't notice this before I goofed up my Squier. I tried putting on .11's with the heavier 5th and 6th string and I shimmed the neck and I got a dead spot on 1st string 3rd fret.

I just looked at the frets and they are level. It's not buzzing. It just doesn't ring as good as the rest. And it does it a little up around the 16th, 17th fret. They still ring but there at like 75% of the rest of them and you can really tell when playing an open G chord. LOL.

Ugh.

Any tips on this and anyone else have this happen. I took the shim out and put the normal .11's back on and it's still doing it. Maybe it's just the weather.

I was liking this guitar........ Grrrrrrrr......

Any time you do a string gauge change, you need to set the guitar back up because nearly everything changes. Go through the typical step-by-step setup and don't take shortcuts. The shortcuts will deceive you every time.

 

[MilwMark]

The very first thing to do when you encounter dead spots after changing strings is replace the string that's not properly sounding.

That's the answer.

Unless you didn't do a full setup after going up 1 gauge. Then this could be the answer.

Any time you do a string gauge change, you need to set the guitar back up because nearly everything changes. Go through the typical step-by-step setup and don't take shortcuts. The shortcuts will deceive you every time.

 

[MatsEriksson]

If you have the same relief on the neck while putting on 11s you have to change all the setup, relief, intonation and so on. Let's say, assumption, that 11s pull a greater amount of tension on the neck, and that is so sensitive that the strings tension makes the relief a little too much, and is bowed a bit too much...

Then the point of the fret in under the string at that position may rest a tad on the back of the top of the fret, i e on a surface area that is closer to the nut, and this area will be less when the neck relief has been adjusted to accomodate the new 11s set of strings.

My experience is that the smaller the point of surface the strings reside on, you may nail intonation points precisely, but it is only upper harmonics that is heard, and very little fundamental. I like a little flatter and fatter frets for these purposes. It's the "leaving" point that matters. I had a bass once with a dead spot at Eb note D string (13th fret) that was just heard like it was played an octave above, or the harmonic on 5th fret. Filed it down carefully just a bit so it resided on a larger surface, and then the fundamental came back, and it sounded more like the adjacent frets. Too small fret surface can be exacerbated with too much relief since the fret wire gets slightly jinxed and not residing at a prefect 90 degree angle underneath the string

 

[FortyEight]

Lots of good info here.

Just to clarify. Several things"

1.Yeah I'm pretty darned sure it wasn't an issue before changing strings.
2. I went from .11 with a .49 6th string to .11's with the .52 6th string. It was not a huge change. But that being said it was a change.
3. I had already changed the strings back to the .49 6th string set before posting. Just used a whole new set.


Now, I tried adjusting a little more relief in the neck (more bow it was near flat) in last night and that did seem to help the 3rd fret 1st string. It did not completely take it away but I'd say it went from like 70% to 85-90% all good. LOL. BUT BUT, 4 of the higher frets on the D string now are dead. LOL. I'm not sure about the integretiy of the levelness there, cuz I'm the one that leveled these frets and I feel like my rocker tool on the smallest plane is not perfectly flat. (cheap one I guess). But it was not nearly as bad up there before I did this. Plus I don't think I did any filing up there. LOL. Ugh.

I did put a clamp on the headstock first to try that and I think that helped slightly but not enough to matter.

 

[MatsEriksson]

Now, I tried adjusting a little more relief in the neck (more bow it was near flat) in last night and that did seem to help the 3rd fret 1st string.

See, I told you so. It can go the other way, and if it was nearly flat before, that's sure exacerbating the buzz, and dead spots. Too.

Is the guitar worth to spend a Plek job on it?

 

[FortyEight]

See, I told you so. It can go the other way, and if it was nearly flat before, that's sure exacerbating the buzz, and dead spots. Too.

Is the guitar worth to spend a Plek job on it?

I would think not.... I mean it's a nice playing guitar. It does have kind of a nice sound. But I'm not completely in love with it. The neck is super thin and it's not a full sized body. That in itself has it's own charm and for someone smaller it might be ideal.... But.... I don't really think I'd want to do that. Although I forget how much they cost. It's a Bullet. I bought it for 80 which was already a bit too much. LOL. I actually bought it to use for parts on my Starcaster. Which I may or may not do now.... The only thing I really would want to rob from it is the bridge saddles. They are smooth and feel nice. And my starcasters are sharp. Well, the screws in them. But at the same time I don't even think I'm gonna do that.

I'm not sure what to do with the thing. The pups are kind of interesting. If you have them any higher than 2mm off of the pickguard they break up like a humbucker. But where they're at super low they have a nice really clean sound. And they sound WAY different than my Starcasters. Those are kind of gnarly sounding. Which is good for some thing but not all the time. LOL.

I guess if it didn't cost a super lot it would make it playable again and another guitar in the arsenal for recording. I used it on one of the songs I'm mixing now and I really like how it sounds in there. LOL.

I can still use it for songs where I wouldn't be using any of the dead spots.

 

[MatsEriksson]

You can erode the way through that dead spot. Doing excessive bending and finger vibratos, so you eventually wear it down a bit and smooth it out. I do that every so often with guitars with zero fret. After a while they will "ping" when bending the string at 3rd four fret, since they move out of their small tiny slots that they have chewed into and slowly made. But this ping is not heard through the pickups. It's bucked by the damping finger. So after a while the edges of this slot is evened out, and have a smooth ramp to the left and right. So no ping anymore. It takes a while though, and going through some set of strings...

 

[FortyEight]

I adjusted the truss rod again and detuned to Eflat to see. I flattened it out again cuz I didn't love the relief and the saddles are pretty low as is. That's why I tried shimming it.

But I think it's about the same.... The notes higher up aren't quite as dead. The g well now F# is about the same.