David Crosby - Facing the End

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Deeve, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. L.A. Mike

    L.A. Mike Tele-Holic

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    The state I live in requires 7 years sobriety before you can get a transplant.
    It has been reported numerous times that Crosby had been sober almost 5 years to the day when a suitable liver became available.
    It would be unethical for a hospital or doctor to move someone to the head of the line because of who they are or how much money they have. The families of patients who got passed over so the liver could go to a famous or rich person would call the media, file complaints with the state medical board, get a lawyer and sue everyone involved in making that decision.
    Of course, I am talking about the USA.
    I don't know what goes on in places like India, etc.
    A "suitable donor liver" has to be found. They can't stick just anyone's liver in you. It has to be a reasonable match in size and other criteria which I won't go into here.
    Most people die from liver failure while on the list. Mainly because of the difficulty in finding a close enough match. And due to there not being enough donated livers. Only a minority of people actually get one transplanted. Another problem is overall condition of the patient. If a patient declines past a certain point while waiting on the list, they don't transplant you. The surgery will kill you if you are not strong enough to survive it. Age is another factor. If they have to decide between a 70 year old person or a 50 year old person, they'll probably go with the younger patient.

    Crosby has an addictive disease which almost killed him. He got transplanted in 1994. Had that not happened he would most likely have died in 1994. To blame someone for having an illness is a callous/jaded behavior.
    Crosby wasn't strong enough to overcome his addiction by himself. He got so bad he was carrying weapons out of paranoia and had sold all his possessions and alienated his friends and loved ones.
    It happens to lots of people, most of them average working class people. I don't get the attitude of blaming and hating someone because they were rich and famous. Does that make someone superhuman? Most of the famous people I've met were just people like everybody else. Some were dealing with fame and some weren't. There aren't any classes you can take to teach you how to do that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
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  2. Keefsdad

    Keefsdad Tele-Holic

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    Well said, Mike.
     
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  3. rand z

    rand z Friend of Leo's

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    MODERATE.

    Social Economics, Law, Ethics... dancing around POLITICAL OPINION.

    It doesn't look like it.

    "David Crosby" is a HOT subject.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
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  4. Georox

    Georox Tele-Afflicted

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    Still no evidence of accusations.
     
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  5. Georox

    Georox Tele-Afflicted

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    [​IMG]
     
  6. StrangerNY

    StrangerNY Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

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    He did a record produced by Michael League of Snarky Puppy. The parts of it I heard are pretty good, albeit not my cup of meat.

    - D
     
  7. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I would love to respond to this.
    But it would likely get me banned from this site.
    Suffice to say I disagree with a lot of this
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  8. dan1952

    dan1952 Friend of Leo's

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    I have read Mr. Crosby's autobiography, and it was painful. He is vain, narcissistic, and self-centered beyond belief. Not a very sympathetic character. A lot like someone I know...
    He also has been able to see those flaws and attempt to, if not correct them, at least harness them. Although he helped get Jan addicted as badly as he was, he also was able to get himself straightened out, help his wife get straightened out, and celebrates their recovery proudly. As well he should!
    He is very gifted and knows it. I have no problem with that. He's given a lot of joy to millions of people, including me, and I don't begrudge him getting a liver transplant. I don't pretend to know what criteria are used in determining who gets a transplant, but I assume the rules also applied to Jack Bruce, who survived for several years after his, and Rory Gallagher, who got an infection and didn't survive the surgery. Both men were known for their heavy drinking/alcoholism.

    I believe in forgiveness and redemption, and that includes forgiveness of self, which is an important part of redemption. Mr. Crosby is proud of himself for achieving those things, as well he should be.
    I am glad that a lot of people are on his his side, and I'm glad a lot of people are on my side. God bless you, David, and make as much new music as you are able to make!
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  9. Teleterr

    Teleterr Friend of Leo's

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    Yeah, self indulgence isn t an illness.
     
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  10. L.A. Mike

    L.A. Mike Tele-Holic

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    No, that's a behavioral problem. If one over indulges occasionally, by choice. If that's what you meant.

    David has a medical condition and illness as defined by the American Medical Association. AMA also acknowledges that addiction itself is a manifestation, the result of an underlying disorder.
     
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  11. Teleterr

    Teleterr Friend of Leo's

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    AMA ? No political content there. I ll refrain from expressing my low opinion of them.
    There was a study of monkeys at a tropical resort who would hop up on the patio and finish folks Rum and fruit drinks. They fell into 3 groups; those that quit after getting their first hang over, those that were careful not to drink too much, and wait for it, Party Animals who became alcoholics. I doubt any of the monkeys were mentally Ill. The fact that Dave likes to party isn't t an illness it's how he's geneticly hard wired. I'm glad he developed at least some self control, but he should not condem a life style just because he personally can t handle it.
     
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  12. Keefsdad

    Keefsdad Tele-Holic

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    Party??:confused:
     
  13. kplamann

    kplamann Tele-Holic

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    I am not by default a fan of everything CSNY have put out, solo or in any of the possible combinations.

    But I have his last two records and they are fantastic (and quite different between themselves). As I have stated in another post, I also greatly appreciate his choice of younger musicians and the room he leaves them to co-write and co-arrange. He wrote most of the last record in the studio with them.

    I missed his Paris shows last year, but I surely won't miss the next ones if there are any.
     
  14. uriah1

    uriah1 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    A great drummer buddy of mine was afllicted with the disease
    of addiction. He got clean, but, still ended up needing and getting a liver after years.
    His donor liver had Hep c., so, he did not last as long as all hoped.
     
  15. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    edit- changed my mind. it's not worth it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
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  16. L.A. Mike

    L.A. Mike Tele-Holic

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    I wasn't getting political by mentioning the AMA.
    I happen to believe in modern medicine and doctors. I believe they know more about what a disease is than I do.
    For example, Diabetes:

    What causes type 1 diabetes?

    Type 1 diabetes occurs when your immune system, the body’s system for fighting infection, attacks and destroys the insulin-producing beta cells of the pancreas. Scientists think type 1 diabetes is caused by genes and environmental factors, such as viruses, that might trigger the disease. Studies such as TrialNet are working to pinpoint causes of type 1 diabetes and possible ways to prevent or slow the disease.

    What causes type 2 diabetes?
    Type 2 diabetes—the most common form of diabetes—is caused by several factors, including lifestyle factors and genes.


    Is it a diabetic's fault that they develop this disorder because of the way their body functions?
    If not, then why is it an addicts fault if they become addicted to something that other people can take it or leave it?

    You are free to believe what you want. As I am. I've been down the addiction road. Not as bad as Cosby. But experienced enough to know when something is over-indulgence vs. a medical problem.
     
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  17. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    There is always the option to not dabble in substances known to be addictive in the first place.

    I mean, the data is in on these things.
    Science.
    And Medicine.

    Like you say.
     
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  18. Teleterr

    Teleterr Friend of Leo's

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    ? You haven't t heard Party Animals ? I used it as a humourous phrase since it's used to describe people, but here they were actual animals.
     
  19. L.A. Mike

    L.A. Mike Tele-Holic

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    There are biological addictions and there are psychological addictions.
    A psychological addiction can lead to physical addiction
    Many things people get addicted to, and have to be treated for, are things that most people do every day. Without any problems.
    Things like:
    Alcohol
    Prescription Drugs
    Gambling
    Sex
    Food
    Watching Porn
    Internet

    But some people get addicted to these things that others can take or leave.
    Sure, everybody knows Heroin and Cocaine are addictive both physically and mentally. If you do it often enough and long enough.
    But some people get addicted to things almost as soon as they try them.

    Tobacco and Alcohol are the most addictive and the hardest to quit.

    I'm not saying Crosby isn't responsible for his actions. He has admitted it and talked about it repeatedly.
    My point is, some people (I know a few) can try Coke, booze, pot, and even Heroin to see what it's like, and not get addicted. They just don't like it that much.
    Like It is the key. That's what the scientists are trying to figure out. What causes some people to like something too much. Above all else. It is believed it's a brain malfunction and they are trying to identify what is going on with addicts.
     
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