Danger... Rhythm section is MUTATING!

noname_dragon

Tele-Holic
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Posts
771
Location
North east coast
The drummer is overplaying... "rolling the kit" every other measure. Incidentally, loves the Dead.
The bass player is overplaying... throwing in 2 handed tapping, disco octaves, showboating and (yikes) rushing.
These talented guys have jazz backgrounds, so they are somewhat sophisticated musicians. Maybe they are bored, but 'come on man!'.
We play country and rock and we gig often, requiring smooth grooves for dancing crowds. From my perspective, it's getting out of hand. I'm only 2nd guitarist and vocalist... my "job" in the music so to speak, so I'm not sure speaking up about it is my place. It doesn't seem to bother the band leader. I'm surely recognizing that the delicate balance of egos and good feelings in a working band keeps even seemingly constructive criticism a "delicate" topic. In my long and obscure career, I've played with fantastic drummers and bass players who held the groove like a sweet machine and only stepped out with a fill at exactly the right moments. Like rocking in a cradle... so great.
How would you handle this? Or leave it alone?
 

tubedude

Tele-Afflicted
Silver Supporter
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Posts
1,068
Location
east georgia
Jazz players are usually more attuned to the overall groove and avoid overplaying. But I get it, you can actually fall asleep playing standard bass lines in country music. Hopefully a balance can be struck. Tell them you know it can be tiresome, but the goal is packing the dance floor. Save the technique for originals.
 

dannyh

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Posts
2,207
Age
55
Location
North Texas
It depends. If this was a just a gig I did for money, or because it was my only opportunity to play out, I might leave it alone. You’re gigging, no band is perfect (usually IME) and the best way to find an opportunity to play with another band is usually to be working/gigging, again just IME.

On the other hand, if the issues with these guys drive you nuts to the point that you don’t wanna play out anymore, that’d be another thing entirely. I’ve been through burnout with bands before, that’s a major drag…music is supposed to be fun.

Best of luck.
 
Last edited:

JL_LI

Poster Extraordinaire
Joined
May 20, 2017
Posts
8,844
Age
72
Location
Long Island, NY
Come to an agreement where everyone gets something. A dance gig requires danceable tunes with a steady beat. Why not let the last number in a set be a jam. Let it run 10 minutes, no more and then get back to a steady rhythm when the next set begins. Rehearse the jams. You can do a major pentatonic jam. You can even jam off a rockabilly tune. But you can’t do it without rehearsing it in at least outline form first. Pass solos in your jam like in a jazz combo. A group of adults, even egotistical adults, should be able to do this.
 

String Tree

Doctor of Teleocity
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Posts
17,952
Location
Up North
The drummer is overplaying... "rolling the kit" every other measure. Incidentally, loves the Dead.
The bass player is overplaying... throwing in 2 handed tapping, disco octaves, showboating and (yikes) rushing.
These talented guys have jazz backgrounds, so they are somewhat sophisticated musicians. Maybe they are bored, but 'come on man!'.
We play country and rock and we gig often, requiring smooth grooves for dancing crowds. From my perspective, it's getting out of hand. I'm only 2nd guitarist and vocalist... my "job" in the music so to speak, so I'm not sure speaking up about it is my place. It doesn't seem to bother the band leader. I'm surely recognizing that the delicate balance of egos and good feelings in a working band keeps even seemingly constructive criticism a "delicate" topic. In my long and obscure career, I've played with fantastic drummers and bass players who held the groove like a sweet machine and only stepped out with a fill at exactly the right moments. Like rocking in a cradle... so great.
How would you handle this? Or leave it alone?
Talk about it.
If what they do throws you off your Game, it needs addressing.
Especially if they are getting in the way of your Singing.

Admittedly, tact and, diplomacy have never been my strong suit.
Maybe you can do better.

It sounds as though you don't want the situation to lower itself to Brinksmanship and trashing the friendships.

Best of luck
-ST
 

SRHmusic

Tele-Afflicted
Joined
Oct 19, 2020
Posts
1,641
Location
North Carolina, USA
Are they coming with some cool interplay with bass and drums, or just overplaying? Music can have a great groove without overplaying. Worth a discussion about what their goals are.
 

teletail

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Aug 25, 2019
Posts
3,433
Age
72
Location
West By God Virginia
The drummer is overplaying... "rolling the kit" every other measure. Incidentally, loves the Dead.
The bass player is overplaying... throwing in 2 handed tapping, disco octaves, showboating and (yikes) rushing.
These talented guys have jazz backgrounds, so they are somewhat sophisticated musicians. Maybe they are bored, but 'come on man!'.
We play country and rock and we gig often, requiring smooth grooves for dancing crowds. From my perspective, it's getting out of hand. I'm only 2nd guitarist and vocalist... my "job" in the music so to speak, so I'm not sure speaking up about it is my place. It doesn't seem to bother the band leader. I'm surely recognizing that the delicate balance of egos and good feelings in a working band keeps even seemingly constructive criticism a "delicate" topic. In my long and obscure career, I've played with fantastic drummers and bass players who held the groove like a sweet machine and only stepped out with a fill at exactly the right moments. Like rocking in a cradle... so great.
How would you handle this? Or leave it alone?
Actually, they don’t sound sophisticated at all. They sound like hacks.
 

drmordo

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Posts
2,340
Age
47
Location
Tampa, FL
As long as they aren't interfering with the vocal part of the song, I'd follow them and take it out as far as they went. Most of the greatest bandstand moments I have experienced were spontaneous. That said, too much of a good thing is... less good.

I would also pay attention to the audience and if they seem to not like it, I would consider talking to the band leader.
 

VonBonfire

Tele-Holic
Joined
Apr 21, 2021
Posts
529
Age
101
Location
Texas
The drummer is overplaying... "rolling the kit" every other measure. Incidentally, loves the Dead.
The bass player is overplaying... throwing in 2 handed tapping, disco octaves, showboating and (yikes) rushing.
These talented guys have jazz backgrounds, so they are somewhat sophisticated musicians. Maybe they are bored, but 'come on man!'.
We play country and rock and we gig often, requiring smooth grooves for dancing crowds. From my perspective, it's getting out of hand. I'm only 2nd guitarist and vocalist... my "job" in the music so to speak, so I'm not sure speaking up about it is my place.
If they were talented with jazz backgrounds they wouldn't rush when showboating. Just makes them look like stereotypical undisciplined self indulgent musicians. You aren't the bandleader, it ain't sounding like a democracy so keep it yourself and collect your paycheck. If you start to perceive your bottom line being affected then maybe take your complaints up the ladder.
 

57joonya

Tele-Afflicted
Joined
Jul 23, 2021
Posts
1,046
Age
47
Location
New Jersey
The drummer is overplaying... "rolling the kit" every other measure. Incidentally, loves the Dead.
The bass player is overplaying... throwing in 2 handed tapping, disco octaves, showboating and (yikes) rushing.
These talented guys have jazz backgrounds, so they are somewhat sophisticated musicians. Maybe they are bored, but 'come on man!'.
We play country and rock and we gig often, requiring smooth grooves for dancing crowds. From my perspective, it's getting out of hand. I'm only 2nd guitarist and vocalist... my "job" in the music so to speak, so I'm not sure speaking up about it is my place. It doesn't seem to bother the band leader. I'm surely recognizing that the delicate balance of egos and good feelings in a working band keeps even seemingly constructive criticism a "delicate" topic. In my long and obscure career, I've played with fantastic drummers and bass players who held the groove like a sweet machine and only stepped out with a fill at exactly the right moments. Like rocking in a cradle... so great.
How would you handle this? Or leave it alone?
It really sucks when this happens . It’s such a delicate balance isn’t it ? There’s nothing you can do but find like minded musicians . I don’t know why some musicians find it beneath them to hold a steady and simple groove . Just tell them “this isn’t a rush cover band guys” there’s no show boating needed .. u really have to have the talk. Amd see where it goes . This has been a 30 year battle for me with musicians . I’m looking for like minded musicians still . Probably will be till the day I die . Unless I move to Austin or Nashville or somewhere cool. Good luck to you
 

VonBonfire

Tele-Holic
Joined
Apr 21, 2021
Posts
529
Age
101
Location
Texas
It really sucks when this happens . It’s such a delicate balance isn’t it ? There’s nothing you can do but find like minded musicians . I don’t know why some musicians find it beneath them to hold a steady and simple groove . Just tell them “this isn’t a rush cover band guys” there’s no show boating needed .. u really have to have the talk. Amd see where it goes . This has been a 30 year battle for me with musicians . I’m looking for like minded musicians still . Probably will be till the day I die . Unless I move to Austin or Nashville or somewhere cool. Good luck to you

I'm in the Austin-San Antonio area. It doesn't really change things, there are still plenty of those guys to go around. Bad meter doesn't discriminate geographically, haha. Amazing how many musicians can't count. Lived in Nashville for a short time about 15 years ago. Same thing. Just one of the many negative sides to the business. If you can get personnel sorted out you have the worst part handled. There are just more people to choose from around here but I don't think the percentage of competency is much better versus your average metro area.
 

Cosmic Cowboy

Tele-Afflicted
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Posts
1,106
Location
New Mexico
The drummer is overplaying... "rolling the kit" every other measure. Incidentally, loves the Dead.
The bass player is overplaying... throwing in 2 handed tapping, disco octaves, showboating and (yikes) rushing.
These talented guys have jazz backgrounds, so they are somewhat sophisticated musicians. Maybe they are bored, but 'come on man!'.
We play country and rock and we gig often, requiring smooth grooves for dancing crowds. From my perspective, it's getting out of hand. I'm only 2nd guitarist and vocalist... my "job" in the music so to speak, so I'm not sure speaking up about it is my place. It doesn't seem to bother the band leader. I'm surely recognizing that the delicate balance of egos and good feelings in a working band keeps even seemingly constructive criticism a "delicate" topic. In my long and obscure career, I've played with fantastic drummers and bass players who held the groove like a sweet machine and only stepped out with a fill at exactly the right moments. Like rocking in a cradle... so great.
How would you handle this? Or leave it alone?
You are blessed to have talent around you. Maybe it's worth having a powwow and explain about "serving the song" and at least give it an intro verse and chorus to lay back and "establish" until they cut loose.
 

57joonya

Tele-Afflicted
Joined
Jul 23, 2021
Posts
1,046
Age
47
Location
New Jersey
I'm in the Austin-San Antonio area. It doesn't really change things, there are still plenty of those guys to go around. Bad meter doesn't discriminate geographically, haha. Amazing how many musicians can't count. Lived in Nashville for a short time about 15 years ago. Same thing. Just one of the many negative sides to the business. If you can get personnel sorted out you have the worst part handled. There are just more people to choose from around here but I don't think the percentage of competency is much better versus your average metro area.
I guess I assumed everyone can play properly in those places haha
 




New Posts

Top