Custom 50's style Flying V

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by joekumpan3, Jan 3, 2017.

  1. Matt1011

    Matt1011 TDPRI Member

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    Sorry to just jump in on this and I hope I have the right thread but I saw the first build you did and am super impressed by the detail you put into that build. You started yours like 2 years after I started mine. I wish I had seen yours first but I'm glad I saw this now. Mine began as an unemployment project then I got a job, bought a house and 2 kids later, 3 and 9 months, I resurrected my project and would love to pick your brain if that's OK. I made a ton of mistakes along the way. Worse than any of the ones you made, but I think she'll still play when I'm done. I based my plans off the 60 and later model as that is all I could find at the time. So I sorta modified it to accommodate a 58, 59 model and it wasn't easy but I still feel there's hope. I got as far as the pic. I think I'm to drilling out the wire holes for the electronics and the pickups, bridge, and tailpiece. I marked them all off and am ready to go but am wondering if there are steps I should complete before I do that. Any help would.be great. Thanks in advance oh and go easy on my ugly pickup routes. I did the neck one with a template after the fretboard was on so.It didn't sit level to the body. I should have modified the template to lay flat but instead shimmed it up,which was dumb, to be level with the fretboard. Needless to say I was careless and it walked. 1496368804052-1522811917.jpg
     
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  2. joekumpan3

    joekumpan3 Friend of Leo's

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    first of all thanks for the compliments, second let's see what we can do with what you have. From what I see the pickup cavities don't look too bad, as long as the mounting ring will cover them they are fine providing they are centered and deep enough.

    I don't think your electronics cavity is big enough to fit the switch or at least not as Switchcraft, maybe a boxed import kind. I should be a P shape and it looks a little more like an L right now. If you have a pickguard already and parts that would help to figure out what clearance you need. Here is a real one. IMG_4541.JPG

    Are you planning to put a 50's style input jack? If so you will need to drill that or route the hole on the horn, then drill a hole connecting the cavity to it. It has to be deep enough to plug in but not so deep the point of the bit ( if you drill ) comes out the back. In the old days they drilled one long hole from the neck pocket to the jack hole with like a 3 foot bit. Which brings me to how to connect the neck pickup route with the cavity. If you didn't drill the hole before you glued the neck on then it's going to be tough. You can drill from one pickup cavity to the other but you will still need a long bit to get a good angle and even then the hole will be at the top on one side and the bottom on the other, if you don't miss altogether. Possibly a better solution would be a small top route like the 67'. IMG_4542.JPG
    Of course this is if you haven't drilled the holes already.

    Next it looks like you have drilled the bridge holes already. If not wait to do those until after the finish, then make a little base for it and move it until it inotates then drill the holes.

    For the tailpiece if it's the 50's through the body then do them now. If it's a stop bar tailpiece you can drill them now as well.

    I hope that helps some, it looks nice so far.
     
  3. joekumpan3

    joekumpan3 Friend of Leo's

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    Anyway.... I went in and clipped the little section out from the leg on the capacitor. It is now in series and all tucked back in. IMG_4543.JPG IMG_4544.JPG
    You can't really see there but the top has the wire sticking straight up before I clipped it again. I used red zip ties but didn't like them and went back to black.
     
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  4. AAT65

    AAT65 Friend of Leo's

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    Joe, your perfectionism is fantastic! I'm glad you changed them, we wouldn't want to think of you making that beautiful guitar and not being able to enjoy it because of worrying over the colour of the cable ties inside...
    Seriously, you've made another great work of musical art there, and that amount of care and attention - and your practical skills of course - really makes the difference.
     
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  5. joekumpan3

    joekumpan3 Friend of Leo's

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    I spent the evening last night fiddling around with the knobs and switches and the amp settings. The p 90 sounds pretty darn good but is still a little thick and fat, not a terrible thing, sounding best with cleaner or medium distortion.

    The humbucker is definitely modern sounding, very nu metal-ish the bass and mids are really something, and I think in a mix would be something special. The highs are a little rounded off but the series/split/parallel switch is like turbo for the highs. The lows and mid don't sound as good on the single or parallel mode, I think the single actually is better than the parallel by a little bit, but the parallel is good for boosted leads without hum.

    The rear pickup ring is kind of high too I may need to get one a little shorter or remove about 1/8", right now the bobbins are flush with the top of it and it's a little high.

    On the other hand the p90 is still a little loud and bassy and it's almost all the way down. I think I want to try some magnet combos in it. I have an A3 I'll order an A5 and A2 and maybe experiment with mixing magnets together. Maybe I'll try A3/A4 first and see how it sounds.

    The treble bleed mod helped quite a bit, it's not 100% but it pretty cool. While fiddling around I found a good happy place for everything. Tone sounds good all around set at about 7 1/2 - 8, and both volumes rolled down just a little like maybe 9 give it a good sound. I'll post sound soon I'm still learning and adjusting a little. I used to really go for the hot pickup with lots of gain on the amp but I think these days I like sound of a PAF type pickup with high gain. Anyway..... more to come.
     
  6. Matt1011

    Matt1011 TDPRI Member

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    Thanks so much! So helpful man! Yeah I think I'm gonna router the pickup to pick up per the pic you posted. I didn't drill that yet. :( I have a right angle drill attachment for my Dremel I can use to do the rest I think. I've been staging and eyeballing so much of this because I skipped steps and made mistakes. The holes for the bridge I measured to scale, 24.75, and angled it per my SG. I hear what you're saying about floating it though. I'm just concerned about a gaping hole in the PG. As for the switch. I had to take more material out last night for it to fit and it barely does with little room for the soldering the wire. Which leads me to the ground. I know the ground is compression fit to the bridge post. How did you tackle that? I can always just ground it to the pots though can't I if I got too far ahead of myself to do it proper now. I'm to the point I just want it to play. I'm not so concerned about historical accuracy anymore as there is little hope for that beyond the aesthetic at this point. Here's what I got so far. Seems tonight's mission is to remove more material for the switch. You were right. Needs a little more room. I didn't have a template though only a pic and a guess. Did it freehand too. It was daunting and scary but it didn't turn out so bad. This is just kinda staged right now. It's kinda scary too because I'm super close to the edge of the PG with the cavity route. Thanks again!
     

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    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
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  7. Matt1011

    Matt1011 TDPRI Member

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    Should have replied here. Duh. Mine's a few posts down.
     
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  8. Matt1011

    Matt1011 TDPRI Member

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    I also just realized I have a different style switch than in the pic. This is pretty difficult. I grind on details and implications.
     

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  9. joekumpan3

    joekumpan3 Friend of Leo's

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    Yeah, they made it sound funny! Just kdding but I do like when I open stuff up for it to look nice, kind of like a hot rod under the hood. Thanks though, I've been having fun.
     
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  10. joekumpan3

    joekumpan3 Friend of Leo's

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    Hey, that looks pretty good! The first build has somewhat of a learning curve and just remember it will never go 100% smoothly but it is good to make mistakes and do stuff in the wrong order because the lesson sticks in our brain better. It looks good though.

    If the bridge is according to the sg placement it will probably be good. Worst case scenario it's off and you will have to plug the hole and redrill and put a little finish on it. It should be ok though.

    For the ground just drill a small hole from the post to the pickup cavity or the tailpiece into the main cavity then to the pot. You can use wire with the insulation stripped off all or just the end of it. Run the wire from the post hole to the pickup cavity then ground it to the braid of the bridge pickup if you are using Gibson PAF style pickups or you run it from the pickup cavity to the main cavity through the same hole as the pickup lead, then to the back of a pot. I'm pretty sure the ground has to go to a piece of metal from the pot. Hopefully this makes some sense, if not let me know and I'll dig up some pictures.

    If your switch screws are in the way trim them down or turn the switch around, if it fits. You can also unscrew the two screws on the switch and flip which side the head is on most of the time, just be careful and remember which order everything came apart.
     
  11. joekumpan3

    joekumpan3 Friend of Leo's

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    I just realized too that you have a Les Paul style switch here. If it's the short one like on the right in this picture, it may work. IMG_4562.JPG
    Most of the time the right angle is what is used. IMG_4561.JPG
     
  12. joekumpan3

    joekumpan3 Friend of Leo's

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    I got gold straplocks in and I mounted them to the guitar. I wanted to use the screws that came with them but didn't want to hit the truss rod so I off centered it.
    IMG_4545.JPG IMG_4546.JPG
    And one here.
    IMG_4547.JPG
     
  13. Matt1011

    Matt1011 TDPRI Member

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    Again many thanks! Thinking I'll do the ferrules or do I wait until it's finished? Could I do them and then spend time taping them off, albeit tedious, but could that work? Reason I ask is because I didn't exactly center the pickups but placed them well enough and used an awl to mark the spots so that the strings cover the poles pretty good. They're off by like 32nds in some spots but I'm not about to split hairs over that. I'm fairly confident that'll do. Got the tailpiece on. And yes to the PAFs, 57 classic and classic plus for the bridge. Also I have 18 gauge wire. Will that do for the electronics? So glad again that I found this forum and your build. You went above and beyond anything I would even imagine. How do you have the time? I'm up until like 1 am doing this because of kids and family. I wait til they sleep so I can get away and also sneak a couple beers while I'm at it. :)
     
  14. joekumpan3

    joekumpan3 Friend of Leo's

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    Drill the holes for the tailpiece now. There is no need to tape the holes off just twos the drill bit back in there after you finish it if you need. The tailpiece holes aren as crucial for alignment as the bridge, just make sure it will line up closely.

    If you want to ground old school just go from the post to the braid on the bridge pickup. It leave slack enough to pull the pickup out a little and enough slack in the ground so it isn't getting yanked. Otherwise run it into the cavity. I'm sure your wire will work. I put a couple of pics a ways back of doing it.

    I just do it when I can, some weeks there is more time than others.
     
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  15. joekumpan3

    joekumpan3 Friend of Leo's

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    I read up some on brightening up a p90 and lowering the volume some, in going to try a dual mod. I got a roughcast alnico 3 that I'll mix with the 4 and, I'm going to remove the keeper bar and just touch the screws with the magnets. IMG_4558.JPG IMG_4559.JPG IMG_4560.JPG
    This is totally reversible and it helped a lot. It did loose a little girth. It it matches the bridge better in volume and the bass is tamed down now. It sounds pretty good. I want more p90 guitars now!
     
  16. Matt1011

    Matt1011 TDPRI Member

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    Top route done and boy is it ugly but functional. Rode the router on shims as not to interfere with the fretboard, again freestyle. Drilled from neck pickup to the control cavity with my right angle Dremel attachment. Got a 6" 1/8 bit today to drill to the jack now. But note the pic. The classics come with almost 16" of lead wire. I can likely use the excess to finish the rest, no? I guess my question is how much lead wire from the pickups do I need to leave to get the wiring done and be safe? Also drilled the ferrule holes. Should I install them now or wait? I kinda just wanna string it up to see if she plays alright before I go ahead with finishing. Thanks again! IMG_20170605_222526739.jpg IMG_20170605_222548589.jpg
     
  17. joekumpan3

    joekumpan3 Friend of Leo's

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    It depends on what kind of feurels. If they are eyelets like the original 58-59 then install before you finish, if they are played do them with the rest of the hardware.

    For the leads leave about 5" ,maybe even more, extra from from their pots to the cavities. If you cut them too short you will have to rewire the pickup.

    You should start a build thread, lots of people here would be interested in watching.
     
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  18. ftitele

    ftitele TDPRI Member

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    Hi. Your V and finish came out looking great! I'm currently in the finishing stage with my V. I'm building 2 V's. The first one is a 58' and the second more of a deluxe version with 2 p90's. Initially I wanted to do a sunburst for the 2nd V, but without pickguard and cavities routed in the back. I had a "doh" moment when I realized that the neck to body joint was still exposed. So I filled the cavity and decided to go for a Goldtop finish. My first attempt was ruined by the fact that I had not sealed the pores enough - Grain filling and brushed on sanding sealer. Anyhow, long story short I'm still very much trying to finish the two V's.

    Here's a link to my post if you're interested. https://www.mylespaul.com/threads/58-flying-v-black-korina-deluxe.390186/

    Btw the way your first 58 V build thread is what inspired me. Thanks a lot!!!!!
     
  19. Matt1011

    Matt1011 TDPRI Member

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    Thanks again! I'm back. To date I've grain filled and sanded but I did it wrong. I didn't dilute the filler like I was supposed to and didn't sand with 320. I filled as is with a few drops of stain then sanded with 220. So I'll be filling the grain again tonight the right way. I don't claim to understand the implications of how I did other than a lot of sanding was involved to get it all off. I'm going to miss the remainder to do my hopefully final correct coat. The pores are really well filled as you can imagine being it was more concentrated. I also drilled the holes for the tailpiece like you advised. And even though I taped off the fretboard, I still wound up making a mess of the edges. Note to self and others: don't grain fill after 8 beers. I figured it would be an easy buzzed up task. That was also after retapping my brake calipers and doing an axle on my car so I was a little tuned up. I would document my progress on a separate thread but I really don't feel like I know what I'm doing enough to do so and time plays a role. I don't want to mess others up and a little comes from ego I suppose. I don't want to look like too much of a newbie and exploit my screw- ups. You have a great sense for these types of projects and I admire that hence why I'm leaning so heavily on your advice. Thanks again!
     
  20. Matt1011

    Matt1011 TDPRI Member

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    So I stained it and wound up with cracks. A lot the second time around. What's the best way to deal with these? CA glue and saw dust? I'm at a loss because if I go that route, I'll have to sand down and stain again risking more cracking. Any advice to mitigate that work involved?
     

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