Could use some input on amps... sound... playing live... different venues... different boards....

Discussion in 'The BASS Place' started by FortyEight, May 11, 2021.

  1. FortyEight

    FortyEight Tele-Afflicted

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    So I'm like 6 months into playing with this country band. Things are going well. BUT, we've had kind of a hiccup lately.

    The board they had been using is an older 10 channel Crate. The last two channels are a 9/10 half power or something. There are just enough inputs with what we got but the thing is on the fritz. Some of the channels are starting to not work at times and give us problems.

    We had everything working with that sound wise. But then they ordered a "Rocville" 12 channel from Amazon. And we've started to have challenges. It supposdely has more watts then the crate but it has like no balls. Sounds dead.

    Now.... enter my issue. I've been playing through a rumble 40 with an xlr out to the board. Which is usually plenty. But the last gig we played was at a bowling alley and we're on the approaches. So it's pretty wide open. And the first half of the gig sounded blaaaa. Then the drummer and steel guitar player are older guys with a lot of experience so they eq'd my amp a lot differently and cranked it. It did sound a lot better. But then they were all looking at me like I'm stupid cuz I had the settings where I did. Well the steel player is new and never played with us when we were using the last board. And the drummer is this old school dude that is pretty dogmatic and they're both like you need a bigger better amp.

    And I'm like thinking, hang on, this thing first off was working really well with the other board. Secondly, even at this gig once we cranked the rumble 40 it worked well. They had the bass turned way up on the eq. mids and treble lower. Gain low and Volume way up. Almost dimed. LOL.

    Anyways.... Another thing is both of the old guys didn't like that my jazz doesn't say Fender on the headstock (squier) cuz I percieve the drummer to be a bit of a gear queer. He's always bragging about how much his stuff costs. He is supposedly a professional musician that has played with bigger acts.

    Anyways.... Now we're trying to figure a way through this. One idea is if I did go out of the board it would free up a channel, but then I would need to have a bigger rig. I have a rumble 100 with 2-10"ers on casters in my basement that is a boomer but my gosh I don't want want to move that thing around. I swear it weighs a ton. My rumble 40 weighs like a fraction of that.

    Then I got to thinking, should I get one of these newer, lighter and smaller combos like the Ampeg with a 12" speaker and a 110 watts. Or the rumble 100. They're not real heavy or expensive. Then I thought, if I did that and really needed some juice is figure a way to run the rumble 40 and one of those mentioned together.

    Or there is the idea of getting a head with more watts and some kind of cabinet set up that doesn't weight a ton. Maybe a newer 1 15" speaker.

    IDK. I'm likely going to start playing my Mexi P bass with them cuz I think I got the pot fixed. I was going to swap it out but after cleaning it a couple of times with electrical spray it seems to be working now. I bought some to swap if I need to. (the volume pot wasn't working right and the tone crackled a lot) So hopefully the electrical cleaner did the trick on both.

    I think the P probably is bassier and hotter and could possibly help. the drummer is kind of a gear snob and I don't think he liked the fact that my Jazz didn't say Fender on the headstock. He gave me his opinion about basses when I was shopping cuz I asked. But he struck me as a bit too concerned and overly opinionated about it. And I don't think he even plays bass. He just has been playing forever and is supposedly a professional musician and has strong opinions. That being said, I think the Jazz is more mid and treble focused.....

    So any of you ever daisy chain two smaller, lighter amps together? Our next show is outdoors....... And if we try to keep me out of the system outside..... I might need a wall of amps. LOL.

    I don't really have a lot of money to burn.
     
  2. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I dont know, get it down to 100 words. I have no idea if you are talking PA, Bass amp or guitar.
     
  3. nedorama

    nedorama Tele-Meister

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    What do you need 10 channels for in your band?

    I always believe bass and keyboard players need to have a real sized amp for where they play, and the PA can help add the sound where needed, but isn't the whole sound.

    It's also a lot easier for the band to hear bass and keys when they have an amp vs. straining the monitors to hear.

    A 40w Rumble amp IMHO is not enough rig for the gig, especially solid state. I'd buy a used Ampeg 100 watt at a minimum combo, preferably more. Do not run both amps together - get one amp that works well and is powerful enough.
     
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  4. Marc Morfei

    Marc Morfei Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Rumble 40 is probably big enough on its on in smaller venues. Bigger places you'd want to go into the board or get a bigger amp. You'll get a more well-balanced sound if everything is going through the PA. Maybe just reserve the Rumble 100 for bigger venues. Definitely for outside, and even then you'd be better off going through the PA anyway.
     
  5. Refugee

    Refugee Tele-Meister

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    Scrap those Rumbles. Sorry, but they just don't have enough real heft behind them. So you want big sound, light weight? You want Class D. Try a Mark Bass 1 x 12 combo. I know, they're a bit pricey, but it's the only way to get like 400 W into a combo. And they nly weigh 30 lbs. If you go budget wise, I'd get the good old Gallien Krueger 800 RB head, and try that through the Rumble cab, or get like an older SWR 2 x 10. I don't know what the speakers will take in the Rumble. Probably NOT much more than 100 W, maybe 200 W.

    https://www.musiciansfriend.com/amp...p2ISkyY8OzeEhcxlZ8yrUepvwqxv689BoCmi4QAvD_BwE
     
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  6. northernguitar

    northernguitar Friend of Leo's

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    I'm in a power trio and we use that many. Three vocal mics, five on the drum kit, and two channels needed for guitar and bass amps. We play with IEMs, so it's gotta be this way.
     
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  7. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Yes? No?
     
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  8. Refugee

    Refugee Tele-Meister

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    Oh, and the OP said the newer board sounds weak and anemic. Check Craigslist for a used Mackie VLZ 1604. Much better mic pre's, though I don't know what you're doing for power. Powered board? Power amp? Powered speakers? I'm sure you'll find some kind of use for the 4 extra channels, ie guest players, or sit-ins, a sax, annoying harmonica guy that won't take NO for an answer etc...
     
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  9. wabashslim

    wabashslim Friend of Leo's

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    https://comb.io/jsxh7A
     
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  10. northernguitar

    northernguitar Friend of Leo's

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    We use a Behringer X18 and a Yorkville PA system (amp and speakers). And with IEMs, the X18 lets us use our monitor presets in any room we play. SO much hassle avoided with setting up wedges, it's greatly reduced our setup time.
     
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  11. Lowerleftcoast

    Lowerleftcoast Friend of Leo's

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    Imo a bigger bass amp should be on the shopping list. Probably a head with an efficient separate speaker cab. The bass guitars are not the issue.

    In the meantime maybe you could augment your bass amp with the Crate. The rest of the band can use the Rocville.

    Are you sure the drummer is "bragging about how much his stuff costs"? Is it possible he is informing you that some of the band members have much more invested in the band than others?
    I always have an issue with a singer who shows up expecting the rest of the band to supply a mic, and a stand, and a monitor, and a PA. When I have a meager thousands of dollars invested in the band.
     
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  12. nedorama

    nedorama Tele-Meister

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    Define small venues - I couldn't use a 40 watt solid state bass amp unless it was a coffee shop gig or jazz. As for outside, even a Rumble 100 is woefully underpowered.

    I'm so tired of people repeating this idea that everything sounds better through the PA - it's complete bulls%^t. If you have a crappy PA like the OP does, the more inputs you have going in the worst it will sound. Also does the PA even have a sub? If not, then what frequencies is the PA helping the bass on? Pretty much the same range as guitar, keys and vocals, so you have a mix that's clear as mud.

    Keep it simple. Everyone has an amp so that the band can hear each other play. PA can handle vocals, maybe keys as a reinforcement. I know from having read that I needed to put everything through the PA - which works until you also need a ton of monitors to then hear each other. Yes, if you're playing live in big clubs that have a full PA and someone mixing it, then by all means. If you have 12" mains with a 15"/18" sub (or two) and you have parametric EQ and monitors? Great. But for most of us doing sound with our band, don't.

    Also, any band that's mic'ing cymbals in small bars? Don't bother - the wash from the vocal mics are already your cymbal mics, and chances are, that's not what people need more of in the house...
     
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  13. Musekatcher

    Musekatcher Friend of Leo's

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    40w for bass in a band with drums and a pedal steel? Good rule of thumb, is to have more than the pedal steel. I personally never play bass with less than 100w, and that includes upright. I want it clean and only want to use 60% power to stay clean. My rock band/horn band bass rig is 350w, full stack 410 and 215. I run it at about 25% power, and its transformative compared to pushing my 250w 112 combo, much less 100w combo .
     
  14. Cosmic Cowboy

    Cosmic Cowboy Tele-Holic

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    Ideally I think you should want to be in a position where you are not a slave to the PA. In other words, I think you may want to consider an amp solution that can mix in without the board at all.

    I have gigged with guys who are using the Rumble and got fine results with it...however I know they were lining it in. I think the EQ curve does have alot to do with how your tone sits in the mix...and thus, be heard. Consider an EQ pedal as well.

    Perhaps when you guys are playing bigger rooms, you may need a bigger amp. I wish I knew what to tell you on the cost....We've all been there.

    Maybe there's a wrist watch sitting in a drawer, or a power tool laying around that would help you get a bigger sounding amp. As far as playing a Squier guitar, I've literally gigged with dozens of em. Not my first choice, but I can beat it into shape.

    EDIT: Also check out the financing stuff on American Musical Supply. They have a 3 payment and 12 payment installment program with very minimal credit requirements. In fact, I think the 3 payment one is no credit check at all and almost no 'finance charge'.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
  15. 41144

    41144 Friend of Leo's

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    You don't say what the Steel player's using? Acoustic & mic straight into mixer/PA, amp line out or mic'd amp ....
    If he's using an amp ... you need at least x2 the output he has.
    No idea what size a bowling alley approach might be but it sounds 'open', even if indoors and echoey does not sound small to me?
     
  16. mfguitar

    mfguitar Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    I would not be questioning your amplifier when they bought a Rockville PA, not exactly pro gear. It sounds best with everything in the mix but there are several problems, you need someone that knows what they are doing with sound and you need a system that can handle it and that, in my opinion, is not Rockville. If you are serious about being in the band then I think a better amp is in order. There are plenty of choices available for not much coin.
     
  17. Refugee

    Refugee Tele-Meister

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    Does drummer have a plexi-glass shield, or are they a light hitting drummer? Do you put at least some drums through the in-ears? Or, were you able to find a good balance?

    Sorry for the side jack. Get a Mark Bass, I'm telling you'll love it.
     
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  18. northernguitar

    northernguitar Friend of Leo's

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    Mics on drums are primarily for IEMs. We have them panned to get a stereo effect. My drummer is heavy handed, so unless it’s a big venue, we only add a bit of snare and kick into the mix.
     
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  19. Bassman8

    Bassman8 Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Given everything I would get a significantly bigger amp that will let you hear yourself onstage no matter what is going on with anyone's PA. Take some time to research on your budget. Also, do you really want to play with people who are criticizing the headstock of your bass and making other petty comments? Just because they are older doesn't mean s**t if they act like jerks.
     
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  20. 41144

    41144 Friend of Leo's

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    For powerful and light... That's it... Just get a MarkBass
    Those things are phenominal.... This one 300w and 15" around 16kg.... They ain't cheap... But boy are they powerful and beautiful sounding.
    http://www.markbass.it/product-detail/cmd-jb-players-school/
    .... is one of their more affordable ones around £400+ here.
     
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