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Could use help with my new scarlett 2i2

Discussion in 'Recording In Progress' started by FortyEight, Jan 24, 2021.

  1. suthol

    suthol Friend of Leo's

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    I always check for updates within the 24 hours before recording, we seem to get Win10 updates around the 12th of the month here in Oz or at least that's when I do so I'm wary around then.
     
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  2. FortyEight

    FortyEight Tele-Holic

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    Thank you for not firing back at my comments. I felt like I was being criticized. Around here being referred to as a fish is not a good thing. And very derogatory. I understand what you meant but hopefully you can understand there were a few different types of advice given and I have to figure out where to start. Basically not know anything it makes it hard to know who's advice to try first.

    @Boreas I just this morning figured out where to press to get to that... It doesn't look like there is anything wrong. I mean it records just fine.

    @kbold Is it possible that the Scarlett works better than older m-audio and I need to make the latency compensation number smaller? Or would that just make it lag more?

    I didn't have the focusrite plugged in when I took this pic but I at least know where to change the settings in Audacity. LOL.

    My wife showed me how to make sure other processes are turned off. I think we have most of what needs to be turned off but yeah, I don't think it's trying to update when I record. I've not run into any problems when recording thus far with the other one. Again the reason for replacing is cuz the old one is borrowed and I was trying to give the guy his stuff back.

    I think for the next song I do I'm gonna use the older interface. Cuz I also got an SM57 at the same time and I want to hear if there is much of a difference in the 58 and the 57 with my vocals especially. I feel like the 57 did a better job with my bass but I also had it 6" away from the speaker and that was the first time I tried that.

    Anyways... I know I said it but I do appreciate the help. A LOT. It's just been a week so if I seem short, I apologize. I thought I was justified in defending myself though. LOL. But I appreciate that you didn't mean your comments as a snipe. I wouldn't have changed back to the old one if I knew how to use the new one but I was trying to finish up a song and that was how I knew how to do it.
     

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  3. Boreas

    Boreas Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Funny semantics... "To flounder is to struggle, but to founder is to sink like a stone and fail. Both are fun as nouns, not so fun as verbs. ... But it all falls apart when they're verbs — if you're floundering, you're struggling. If you're foundering, you're failing completely." from vocabulary.com
     
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  4. FortyEight

    FortyEight Tele-Holic

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    And just to clarify.... if I adjust those buffer settings it will help the recorded track, correct? What will it do to my listening? Because right now when I listen and speak into it they sound on.... When using the direct monitoring.

    Yeah, but doesn't the word come from how the Flounder fish lives? Like at the bottom and looks kind of stupid with it's face all on one side of it's body? :)
     
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  5. Boreas

    Boreas Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Glad you are getting it sorted. It is frustrating.

    If you are going to continue recording, I would consider upgrading your computer and getting a big monitor. If you can't get a new one, RAM is extremely cheap for older desktop computers and easy to upgrade - certainly easier than the recording process. I would shoot for at least 16GB if your system will take it. Probably will need to remove your current slow RAM and replace with two, 8GB memory cards. VERY EASY INSTALL. Also, consider switching to an SSD hard drive which are MUCH faster than the old platter types. But best to replace the whole computer and get a Quad processor at least because the buss is MUCH faster. 16 GB RAM minimum. USB3 would be good as well. The system is only as fast as its slowest component. You have allotta bottlenecks and increased latency is the price you pay.
     
  6. FortyEight

    FortyEight Tele-Holic

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    Yeah, I'm not sure that's gonna happen anytime soon. But it definitely will be on my radar now. I'm trying to do it all one a tight budget. To even further problem I'm not really in love with any of my guitar sounds. I don't have what I'd call a "good" amp and all my guitars are cheaper. So I keep wanting to upgrade those too. At the same time they work.... So I'm just being picky. The upside is I love my bass. And have two bass amps that work well for bass.

    I do have a couple of desktops here that I could see what they're systems are. My Son built his own super computer and his old unit is jus sitting there. He said it's filled up with pictures though....
     
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  7. Boreas

    Boreas Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    My face is all on one side and couldn't look stoopidder...

    I can't help with the settings themselves - I don't have the latency issues because I threw in the towel and now monitor through the 2i2. But as I understand it, latency and buffering are only issues WHILE recording, not the recordED track. If everything you record has the same latency, it should sound spot on. But if the latency wanders track-to-track, the tracks can get misaligned. This is why a computer with more horsepower can help.
     
  8. Boreas

    Boreas Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Just move the pix to an external hard drive, DVDs, or his super-computer. But you want to use the computer with the fastest processor. That is the key. A better processor will have a better buss, meaning it can handle more processes at once. Once you identify your fastest processor, identify what kind of RAM it has and how many sockets - usually 2 or 4. Then you buy matched RAM cards and replace the existing. Probably can do it for under $30. Older computers may not be able to accept faster SSD drives, so your son can research that.

    Have you tried sending your guitar signal in direct to the 2i2 and using Audacity to massage the amp/reverb, etc.? With free plugins to Aud, you can have an entire studio in your computer. Certainly renders mics and amps moot. You can have a Marshall stack tone if you want. Other DAWS may do more, but I like the feel of Aud - probably because it seems more "analog" to me.
     
  9. FortyEight

    FortyEight Tele-Holic

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    So, a couple of things... yeah when doing the testing I've done I moved to direct monitoring from the 2i2. And it sounds completely on to me. But when the recorded track shows up, it's a hair late now. It was less with the WASAPI. But if I'm understanding it correctly, what kbold is telling me to do is covering the problem I might have. But then I'm wondering if it will change how it sounds WHEN recording. Hopefully not.

    I'm not in the mindset to do amps in the digital world. I don't get it. How do you get feedback? Does it? It just doesn't compute to me. Maybe some day I will change but I don't really get it. I am however doing a lot of XLR out from amps for recording and liking the sounds of that.
     
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  10. Boreas

    Boreas Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    With your older computer, you may find the optimum DAW settings may vary from session to session. You'll figure it out. It is like learning a new instrument.

    You could try a couple other free DAWs, but again - new instrument...
     
  11. FortyEight

    FortyEight Tele-Holic

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    OK, wrapping my head around things better. kbold has helped me a lot... I was hoping this is what this meant and when I looked this up, sweetwater confirmed it. So I guess there is hope for my issue after all.

    Buffer size is the amount of time it takes for your computer to process any incoming audio signal. There is no “industry standard” buffer size to run at since it's all dependent on your computers processing power.Jul 15, 2019

    So hopefully lowering that number may help and put me where I want to be. I think it's close using WASAPI but just a bit off.
     
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  12. FortyEight

    FortyEight Tele-Holic

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    yes but i'm hoping that's not the case. I don't feel like i've felt anomolies with the other interface.....
     
  13. Boreas

    Boreas Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Yes - you can't push honey through a hypodermic needle!
     
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  14. kbold

    kbold Friend of Leo's

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    Compensation is the main factor you need to address. You can reduce it a little, but that way it's hit-and-miss.
    Adjust as per post #15 will set it accurately.

    Buffer size is the amount of data it takes per sample: bigger sample is easier for computer but will increase latency. I suspect an old laptop will struggle with a lower buffer size. From the spec's of your laptop, I don't class it as 'old', so it may well handle a smaller buffer size. It's something you can experiment with. Do the ping test, and repeat reducing the buffer size by say 10mS per test. When you see any distortion to the recorded signal (you'll see it visually when zooming in on the 'Ping" sine wave) increase by 20mS (to be safe). Then adjust 'compensation' at that buffer size.

    Note: Have you disabled unnecessary "Services" in Windows as previously mentioned? (Post#34)
    This will reduce your computer overheads.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
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  15. kbold

    kbold Friend of Leo's

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    The general consensus is: SM57's are better for recording instruments; SM58's are better for vocals.
    If you have both .... lucky you.
    I don't think SM58's are the "best' for vocals, but they are rugged and the industry standard for vocals (esp. when playing live).
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
  16. TokyoPortrait

    TokyoPortrait Friend of Leo's

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    Hi again.

    I think computers and home recording are a little bit like isolated power supplies and pedal boards. Neither sexy nor fun, yet both are expensive. But you do so much better with good ones.

    One thing I've heard of people doing is buying a second hand PC and dedicating it to recording - cleaning it out and only having recording software on it. So there's no junk on it. I've been all Mac for a long while now, so I don't really know, but I believe in many places you can get relatively powerful used PCs fairly cheap. Also, building your own can be quite cheap.

    Another option is to buy a used Mac. I don't want to start a PC vs Mac thing, but with a Mac you'd get several arguable advantages. One being the fact it comes with GarageBand, which is dedicated software for that system and has the excellent Drummer inbuilt. Another is class compliant plug and play with the Focusrite, so no messing with drivers. And, a relatively lower spec'd Mac usually works pretty well, so you don't necessarily have to spend too much money on a used one (within reason).

    Just my thoughts on the two cheapest & simplest options, as they appear to me, if one wanted to explore the dedicated computer route.

    Pax/
    Dean
     
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  17. TokyoPortrait

    TokyoPortrait Friend of Leo's

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    Hi.

    I have heard that many pro studios resort to the SM58 for certain rougher sounding male vocalists. In a way, they might be 'best' for that application. But otherwise, yeah, maybe not.

    Also, I believe the 57 & 58 are very similar, with the same capsule. It's apparently the different dust covers and the slight difference in capsule position that makes the difference, so I've read. Although I have a Sennheiser e906 which I use now, I have the 58 and for recording guitar I used to screw the dome cover off. This supposedly makes it perform very close to the 57. When I use it this way, there's really very little difference to the result I get with the e906. Which makes me think I should have just stuck with the SM58.

    Pax/
    Dean
     
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  18. TokyoPortrait

    TokyoPortrait Friend of Leo's

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    Hi.

    For recording, I personally wouldn't be too concerned about that.

    There's been a ton of great recorded sounds from gear that many today would consider not good enough. But, more importantly, expensive and/or fancy gear is no guarantee to good recorded sounds. I have fairly decent guitars and a great sounding Vox AC amp. I can get a killer sound in the room. A range of killer sounds actually. But, it's really really easy to get thin, weedy, anaemic sounding guitar recordings. I have to work at it to get a good sound. This is one reason why many people like amp sims - instant good base sounds.

    You have to work with your room, amp positions, amp settings, mic positions, instrument settings, etc. to get a good recorded base sound. It's all a balancing act and at times somewhat counter intuitive things yield great results - like crummy, small speaker, cheap guitar amps that can sound huge recorded, etc. And then, on top of that, you need EQ, compression, reverb, etc. to make it sound decent in the DAW. It's not easy to get a good recorded guitar sound.

    Here's an example. To get the best guitar sounds, I need to put my amp on a chair, in an angled position butted up against a sofa, with a padded stool under and in front of the amp grill filling the angle gap, with some cushions either side of the mic, which itself is angled over the sofa to be in front of the grill at a very specific distance and relationship to the dust cover. And, the amp is aimed over the sofa at the corner of the room, at a two wall L shape where two bookcases meet, looking closer to the end of the longer bookcase near where it meets the shorter one. All of this cuts down reflections, isolates the mic and generally gives me the fullest, richest sounding base sound I can get. Which still needs EQ, compression and reverb, etc. added in the DAW. Phew, all that work just to get the best possible recording of very crummy playing...

    So, I guess my advice would be to experiment a huge amount before looking at new / better gear to solve recording issues.

    Hope this is of some use.

    Pax/
    Dean
     
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  19. kbold

    kbold Friend of Leo's

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    I've thought of doing that also, esp' since I have a spare laptop.
    Apathy sometimes gets in the way of a good idea.
     
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  20. kbold

    kbold Friend of Leo's

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    Adjusting buffer compensation won't change the sound at all: it just determines where it starts.

    There's lot of effects that can be applied to any signal (or part thereof) under "Effect". Sometimes it's better to start with a clean signal (you can't clean up a dirty signal very easily). One option is to record simultaneously one track directly and one track monitoring your amp with a mic'.
     
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