RedPillBlues
TDPRI Member
Any chance you could do a zoomed in drawing of this like the mini toggle? Ground on this is the thicker middle terminal?
Cornell Dupree Tele Wiring
- Thread starter RedPillBlues
- Start date
Any chance you could do a zoomed in drawing of this like the mini toggle? Ground on this is the thicker middle terminal?
RedPillBlues
TDPRI Member
I posed these same questions to someone before joining here and posting and he said that I would need a 3 pickup les Paul guitar style switch like this.
What would be the differences between them?
What would be the differences between them?
RedPillBlues
TDPRI Member
Also ground to the output jack is just going from the back of the tone pot? What effect does having the capacitor on the tone pot wiper terminal vs elsewhere?
pipthepilot
Tele-Meister
Yes, the thick tab is the one for ground. The two tabs on the opposite side, need to be bent together and the wire to the vol pot will attache to both.
pipthepilot
Tele-Meister
This is the same as the one I posted a picture of, the only difference is this is the tall one used in Les Pauls, the one I posted is a short one but the work exactly the same.
RedPillBlues
TDPRI Member
That tall one in that pic has 6 tabs though? My short one only has 5.
pipthepilot
Tele-Meister
As mentioned, the diagram assume that the pots are connected through the metal control plate. You can attached ground wires anywhere as long as there is some connection between them all. You could solder all ground wires to the control plate if you wanted. I like to solder the jack to the tone pot because a) its closer to the jack socket and b) the vol pot can get full if all the ground wires are attached there. Once you're connected the ground wires, always go round with a multimeter checking everything is connected and you'll have no problem.
As for tone capacitor, it bleeds the high frequencies of the main signal to ground. The resistance on the tone pot is what stops it getting to ground but it doesn't matter whether the pot is before or after the cap, it all works the same. You could connect the cap between lug 3 on the Vol to lug 1 on the tone pot and then just ground lug 2 of the tone pot its all the same.
lug 3 of the vol pot (the left lug on the diagram) is where the signal enters to volume pot. You could even connect the tone pot via the middle lug of the vol pot and everything will still work, the only difference now is the vol control is applied before the tone control in the circuit.
RedPillBlues
TDPRI Member
Thant makes sense. So the physical touching of the pots being tightened to the control plate via nuts and washers grounds the circuit?
pipthepilot
Tele-Meister
As you said, this is one for 3 pickups but you don't need this. The one you have is correct.
If you think about it, the 3 way switch used on a Les Paul controls 2 pickup. In position 1, the Neck, 2, Both and 3 Bridge.
You are adding this switch to control two signals, the signal coming from the main switch and the signal coming from the middle pickup. So position 1 is signal from main switch, position 2, both signals and position 3 just the Mid PU.
pipthepilot
Tele-Meister
Yes,
RedPillBlues
TDPRI Member
Thanks for the easy to read in-depth explanations here. Makes perfect sense. Where would the bridge pu base plate come into the overall circuit grounding?
pipthepilot
Tele-Meister
Not all tele bridge PUs have a metal base plate but if they do, the bridge is grounded via the bolts into the plate.
Some people worry, this isn't enough and put an extra wire through into PU cavity and attach it the bridge plate. I never do this.
The important thing when wiring a guitar is alway check the grounding when you're done. Attach one probe of your multimeter to the the ring of the jack socket and the go around touching the probe to all your ground points such as the pots, the control plate, the bridge, the switch etc. If all good, then no worry.
I think people get way too hung up on grounding their guitars, electric guitars are noisy, if the buzzing already reduces when you touch the bridge, adding another wire won't reduce it any more.
RedPillBlues
TDPRI Member
Sounds good. Gibson switch might be a little tightNot all tele bridge PUs have a metal base plate but if they do, the bridge is grounded via the bolts into the plate.
Some people worry, this isn't enough and put an extra wire through into PU cavity and attach it the bridge plate. I never do this.
The important thing when wiring a guitar is alway check the grounding when you're done. Attach one probe of your multimeter to the the ring of the jack socket and the go around touching the probe to all your ground points such as the pots, the control plate, the bridge, the switch etc. If all good, then no worry.
I think people get way too hung up on grounding their guitars, electric guitars are noisy, if the buzzing already reduces when you touch the bridge, adding another wire won't reduce it any more.
Have these two caps on hand. 500k pots. Any preference between them or maybe something else?
pipthepilot
Tele-Meister
473K is 0.047uF and 333k is 0.033uF.
0.047uF is typical for single coil pickups but I use 0.033uF quite often, especially when I'm installing P90s.
500k pot in a Telecaster will give too much treble. 250k would be better.
0.047uF is typical for single coil pickups but I use 0.033uF quite often, especially when I'm installing P90s.
500k pot in a Telecaster will give too much treble. 250k would be better.
RedPillBlues
TDPRI Member
I was thinking 500k cause of the T-Armond. At what point in the rotation of the 500k pots would you be at the 250k pots that are both on full volume and treble?
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pipthepilot
Tele-Meister
It doesn't quite work like that.
Let's start by looking at the tone pot. The tone control works by bleeding the high frequencies to ground but the high resistance of the pot stops the high frequencies going to ground. As you turn the tone pot down, you are lowering the resistance allowing more and more high frequencies to pass through (A high pass filter). What this means is that although both a 500k and 250k pot will roll the tone off, the higher 500k pot will always sound brighter because its letting less high frequencies through, no matter how far you turn it. On a tele bridge pickup, which tend to be much brighter anyway, the 500k pot can sound too bright.
For the volume pot, regardless of pickup of resistance 0 is no volume and 10 is full volume but its the way the frequencies are affected changes the tone. As mentioned above the tone circuit is a High Pass Filter but conversely, the volume acts as a low pass filter where the high frequencies are bled to ground but other frequencies pass through to the jack. In this case the higher resistance value will allow more highs through to the jack, which is not a bad thing, think treble bleed circuit, but will make the tone brighter.
In the end it comes down to personal preference and how much you actually use the tone control. Experimenting with different pots, different capacitors is part of the fun of guitar electronics. You could try adding a 250k resistor to the middle pickup circuit to get the 500k on the mid whilst keeping 250k on the single coil part of the circuit or you could add a small 0.001uF cap to ground on the single coil circuit to take some of the brightness out if using 500k pots. You may find that the 0.033uF cap you have is a good middle ground between the bright 0.022uF used with humbuckers and the 0.047uF used with single coils.
Just experiment and find something you like.
RedPillBlues
TDPRI Member
It doesn't quite work like that.
Let's start by looking at the tone pot. The tone control works by bleeding the high frequencies to ground but the high resistance of the pot stops the high frequencies going to ground. As you turn the tone pot down, you are lowering the resistance allowing more and more high frequencies to pass through (A high pass filter). What this means is that although both a 500k and 250k pot will roll the tone off, the higher 500k pot will always sound brighter because its letting less high frequencies through, no matter how far you turn it. On a tele bridge pickup, which tend to be much brighter anyway, the 500k pot can sound too bright.
For the volume pot, regardless of pickup of resistance 0 is no volume and 10 is full volume but its the way the frequencies are affected changes the tone. As mentioned above the tone circuit is a High Pass Filter but conversely, the volume acts as a low pass filter where the high frequencies are bled to ground but other frequencies pass through to the jack. In this case the higher resistance value will allow more highs through to the jack, which is not a bad thing, think treble bleed circuit, but will make the tone brighter.
In the end it comes down to personal preference and how much you actually use the tone control. Experimenting with different pots, different capacitors is part of the fun of guitar electronics. You could try adding a 250k resistor to the middle pickup circuit to get the 500k on the mid whilst keeping 250k on the single coil part of the circuit or you could add a small 0.001uF cap to ground on the single coil circuit to take some of the brightness out if using 500k pots. You may find that the 0.033uF cap you have is a good middle ground between the bright 0.022uF used with humbuckers and the 0.047uF used with single coils.
Just experiment and find something you like.
Ok nice! What would a 250k resistor on the middle PU look like? The Tele bridge PU I’m using is 9.69k on the DMM. Alnico III
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pipthepilot
Tele-Meister
Thinking about it, the best thing to do would be to use the 500k pots and then add a 500k resistor to the neck and bridge circuit as per the diagram below.
This is very interesting because it puts the 500k pot and 500k resistor in parallel. When you have two resistors in parallel, they become a voltage divided, if the two resistors are the same, the voltage halves. What this means in this circuit is that the single coil pickup will see the 500k pot as a 250k pot and the Humbucker will see it as a 500k pot.
This is very interesting because it puts the 500k pot and 500k resistor in parallel. When you have two resistors in parallel, they become a voltage divided, if the two resistors are the same, the voltage halves. What this means in this circuit is that the single coil pickup will see the 500k pot as a 250k pot and the Humbucker will see it as a 500k pot.
RedPillBlues
TDPRI Member
Oh ok. By the humbucker will see it as 500k do you mean the T-Armond middle which is a single coil? With the resistor will the neck and bridge see the pots as 250k in all positions?
@RedPillBlues have you considered using a push-pull tone pot instead of the toggle switch? That’s how mine is wired. (I don’t have a wiring diagram.)
