Contractors/flippers/builders/interior design aficionados : when will white/black/grey/oatmeal be over ?

[421JAM]

One thing that I kept hearing from the builder and his agent, "But that'll be more difficult to sell when you want to sell the house." or people want brick more than river rock." I'd have to remind them, "Well, we're the people buying this house. We're not house flipping. This is our f&*king home." I mean, really?
If we ever do sell our home, the new owners can do whatever the hell they want with the place.

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This is similar to one of my homeowner pet peeves. I constantly hear people say “I would love a screened porch/better kitchen/etc.” but I’d never make my money back.

It’s great to make a profit on your home improvements, but why should someone else pay for the things that bring you enjoyment? Isn’t it worth some of your own money to get to hang out on your screened porch during mosquito season?

 

[Toto'sDad]

An old friend of mine taught me a lesson one day, without knowing he was doing it. When I was a young man, we went out to a swap meet. A guy there had a very ornate Cadillac radio for sale. He was asking 100 bucks for it. My friend who was older and wiser than me, offered the guy a DOLLAR for the radio! The guy behind the counter was furious and asked us to move away from his stall. About an hour later, we went back by, and my friend just as if he had never been there before offered ten bucks for the radio. They guy just handed it over! My friend told me, when you lowball someone, you've got to understand if you don't get the object, it's no loss.

From that day forward I viewed buying and selling entirely different. I have bought some things for very cheap prices even from hock shops. If they are high, offer a ridiculous lowball price. They may get mad, or they may just sell. Selling is an entirely different subject. Even if I buy low, I generally sell high. Selling has one thing in common with buying, you can't be emotionally involved with the sale. If it doesn't sell, WAIT! I had an ad in the CL for a Strat one time that had expired it had been in there so long. I was away from home one night when I got a text asking if the Strat was still for sale. A few minutes later, I got a text asking if they could see it. The guy looked at it, played it maybe two minutes, and forked over my asking price.

 

[oregomike]

This is similar to one of my homeowner pet peeves. I constantly hear people say “I would love a screened porch/better kitchen/etc.” but I’d never make my money back.

It’s great to make a profit on your home improvements, but why should someone else pay for the things that bring you enjoyment? Isn’t it worth some of your own money to get to hang out on your screened porch during mosquito season?

Yeah, I'd just get the damn porch! I mean, the house is one of the few, if not only, things that appreciate over time. I'm not worrying about 10+ years from now. I want the house to be a home and be comfortable for those who live there ,now. Whoever lives in it after aren't my problem. If they don't like the fire pit I built in the back yard or don't like the choice of trees we planted, (or the screened porch)? Not my problem. I have zero f--ks to give. Jeeze, just thinking I must not have this resolved internally.

 

[BigDaddyLH]

An old friend of mine taught me a lesson one day, without knowing he was doing it. When I was a young man, we went out to a swap meet. A guy there had a very ornate Cadillac radio for sale. He was asking 100 bucks for it. My friend who was older and wiser than me, offered the guy a DOLLAR for the radio! The guy behind the counter was furious and asked us to move away from his stall. About an hour later, we went back by, and my friend just as if he had never been there before offered ten bucks for the radio. They guy just handed it over! My friend told me, when you lowball someone, you've got to understand if you don't get the object, it's no loss.

From that day forward I viewed buying and selling entirely different. I have bought some things for very cheap prices even from hock shops. If they are high, offer a ridiculous lowball price. They may get mad, or they may just sell. Selling is an entirely different subject. Even if I buy low, I generally sell high. Selling has one thing in common with buying, you can't be emotionally involved with the sale. If it doesn't sell, WAIT! I had an ad in the CL for a Strat one time that had expired it had been in there so long. I was away from home one night when I got a text asking if the Strat was still for sale. A few minutes later, I got a text asking if they could see it. The guy looked at it, played it maybe two minutes, and forked over my asking price.

My wife thinks I'm an expert haggler. Years ago, we were in Indonesia and she was shopping for souvenirs and gifts. I couldn't care less, but I was there to carry stuff. In one store, I did the talking and gave a lowball bid on some ugly statue. Their counter offer wasn't close so I thanked them and left. The saleswoman chased me down the street! Eventually she gave such a low price my wife elbowed me and I bought the statue. Truth is, I didn't want to lug the statue around! It's sitting in our garden, now.

 

[Matt Sarad]

I didn't flip any houses, but I did very well financially by buying, and living in one until it became worth lots more than what I paid for it. HGTV seems to think that if you didn't like watching the same show every night, you will find it much more interesting if they haul a full-sized Greyhound busload of people in to do the same old modifications to the same tired old houses that were formerly being done by Tarik and Christina.

There is NO WAY that I would buy a house that was being flipped. From what I've seen, you have people who know almost nothing about what they are doing, making a house look attractive to a certain group, and letting important stuff like a good roof, and electrical, and plumbing go.

My brother sold a rental. The guy that bought it flipped it after the white paint, faux granite, and manufactured flooring. The electrical and plumbing were left alone. The guys that bought it it are finding out they have to spend a whole lot more. Coming from LA to Bakersfield they thought they were getting a good deal.

 

[bowman]

Don't ask me, I still have a pink toilet in my 1st-floor bathroom.

 

[61fury]

Tarik and Christina use pretty good people to do their work. Izzy (I checked him out) has a good company and they do beautiful work.

My guess is many people don't know they are buying a flipped house. They go on a tour, see the things they'd like to see, maybe get an inspection and buy.

I know the Holmes show points out houses that people bought from unscrupulous people, but the other shows typically do pretty good work. I don't watch them all nor all the time, but the Waco people fix stuff when they find it (roofs, electrical, plumbing) as do Christina...

The shows are edutainment, you can learn some things, but a lot of the audience just likes to see the simple plot play out and apparently they do want it to be consistent. It is pretty much the andy griffith show if you watch the plot line. The car building shows are pretty similar.

I have not bought a house that someone flipped largely because I like to buy the worst house in the best neighborhood and then make it a nice house in a nice neighborhood...

We had a really big house that we got for CHEAP because it was a disaster in Colorado. I loved it. When I was done it was awesome, and I sold it for more than twice what I had in it. The people that bought it, bragged that they wouldn't have to lift a finger and they were happy. They sold it 2 years later and made money!

I'll never say never. I might buy a turnkey house someday.

We bought our house in 1996. The market was hot then as now. Much of the time a person had to make an offer immediately after seeing the house. Flipped houses were very obvious, lame cosmetics and old fashioned fuse boxes.
We settled on a house owned by an old widow, it seemed sound and it was not "redone" by flippers. And it had a modern circuit breakers and 12-3 wire.
It had a boatload of other problems though, like any 100 year old house. But we still live here and I don't have plans to move any time soon.

 

[Toto'sDad]

My wife says no, but I think all of the HGTV shows are scripted shows, with paid, and maybe some amateur actors thrown in. They all peddle the same lines, and the people who buy all do the same wows! I think it's just another reality tv show that goes on forever. It makes me sleepy, and I usually doze off while they are still at it, so there is at least something good that comes from it.

 

[loopfinding]

Maybe it's a case of familiarity breeds contempt with me. You walk down the street and see...

It's like they have a basic tool kit of 6 boxes and they rearrange them and make a house.

It’s no “Namgoong Hyunja” but I greatly prefer this to the macmansion.

 

[stormsedge]

Drab days are done and gone from these premises…

 

[Bill]

My wife and I bought an apartment in a converted Victorian warehouse. Gutted it and are rebuilding it for our home.

You know whose design opinion matters? Ours.

You know whose design opinion doesn’t matter? That’s right.

 

[loopfinding]

It’s great to make a profit on your home improvements, but why should someone else pay for the things that bring you enjoyment? Isn’t it worth some of your own money to get to hang out on your screened porch during mosquito season?

As someone who will probably never be able to afford property until I’m like 50 (if then, even), I think most people just do this stuff out of boredom. They have no hobbies or craft and gotta blow that money somehow. So it makes sense they eye a return to justify it.

Problem is, most of that stuff my parents did added what, maybe 5-10k to the asking price? That’s a pretty bad ROI for something out of style 5 years later you’ll dislike anyway. Sitting on it and selling high almost doubled the price, the houses they had in that town (east coast) could have looked like decrepit 50s monstrosities and that still would have happened for them.

I really don’t get the mentality of people with disposable income (who aren’t rich either). Especially some of these cases on TV where the reno budget is so absurdly high they’d be better off just buying another house that had what they wanted. From the outside it just looks very keeping up with the Joneses to me.

 

[Mike Eskimo]

On Instagram I follow

VintageBathroomLove

sf_daily_photo (crazy before/after photos of mainly San Fran houses . Some flipped/some going to be)

Vintagebasementbar

Or Google : Old House Dreams

Or the wildly popular cheap old houses.

I’m always a fan of the intact/mainly intact/untouched houses.

But most people would rather have a big box store/least common denominator kitchen or bath reno, than have a light blue, perfectly functional full bath , where the wainscoting , tub enclosure, shower etc is full mud back to the studs and - no cracks .

 

[loopfinding]

Been a licensed architect for more than a couple of decades now. I think the predominant trend has always been to look like you came from money. It used to be to look like you came from old money. Now it is moving towards looking like you came from new money.

i see what you're saying with old vs new and agree. but i think there is also a shift in the attitudes of the upwardly mobile in the past 30 years or so to switch from straight opulence to "taste & authenticity," in everything, really.

some of my friends' nouveau riche parents as a kid were all about having the "most expensivest," regardless of taste or authenticity or something (like an 80 thousand dollar "sports car" that's automatic - don't worry about it, just know i can blow 80k on a whim). self worth as a factor of spending capacity.

but nowadays the nouveau riche i see or know are more like they want you to know they're "cultured" - that they're designy, that they only buy farm-to-table, that they truly appreciate music on vinyl, etc. self worth as a factor of “i know how to spend my money.”

 

[KelvinS1965]

We've been in our house for 20 years and I've DIY'd pretty much all of it over that time. I don't like doing stuff twice, so we've tried to chose stuff that isn't too 'cutting edge' though I'm sure if someone else moved in they would rip everything out as being out of date. I've tried to use decent materials too, also with a view to how it could be refreshed with more modest changes later on (like new kitchen cabinet doors, but keep the worktop and the actual cupboards themselves). We've been able to clean up/repaint certain rooms to keep them fresh, without pulling everything out and replacing, yet (to our eyes at least) still looks tidy.

I hate the idea that some stuff is so fashionable that in, say, 5 years it looks out of date and there is a compulsion to replace it: I have relatives who do this and it's constant cycle changing stuff every few years because it's not the latest thing. I'm sure a lot of the stuff shown on these makeover shows will fall into that category too and just add to the landfill and waste of doing it all again long before it's worn out or could be simply refreshed.

Anyway, I sometimes watch HDTV and it always surprises me how different tastes seem to be over in Wacko. Fair enough some of the 'before' shots are houses that haven't been redecorated for many years, but some of the 'after' shots are equally horrifying to more European tastes. I'm also a little alarmed at the 'Metro tiles' that seem to come up so often because 17 years ago I refurbed our downstairs shower/washroom and used white (but non glossy) tiles laid in a brickwork pattern. I've refreshed it a few times over the years and even re-grouted it during 2020 when I couldn't do much else...It still looks like new, so I'll have to accept it being 'out of fashion' once the Metro tile period ends.

 

[David Barnett]

Anyway, I sometimes watch HDTV and it always surprises me how different tastes seem to be over in Wacko. Fair enough some of the 'before' shots are houses that haven't been redecorated for many years, but some of the 'after' shots are equally horrifying to more European tastes. I'm also a little alarmed at the 'Metro tiles' that seem to come up so often because 17 years ago I refurbed our downstairs shower/washroom and used white (but non glossy) tiles laid in a brickwork pattern. I've refreshed it a few times over the years and even re-grouted it during 2020 when I couldn't do much else...It still looks like new, so I'll have to accept it being 'out of fashion' once the Metro tile period ends.

We get some UK house renovation shows here, and I'm always taken aback by the acceptance of lurid wallpaper patterns, laundry in the kitchen, and large obtrusive radiators in every room.

 

[Mike Eskimo]

I think metro/subway tiles are starting to ebb a little as I have more and more customers asking for a stacked pattern or even vertical stacked/brick pattern over the standard horizontal brick pattern.

They “don’t want to be the same as everybody else”.

I tell them , “well , don’t pick subway/metro at all if you want to buck the trend”.

Realistically ? The larger the tile the less maintenance . Decent glazed ceramic or porcelain doesn’t get dirty.

The grout does .

Large format tile = less grout surface area which means less area to collect dirt etc

 

[KelvinS1965]

We get some UK house renovation shows here, and I'm always taken aback by the acceptance of lurid wallpaper patterns, laundry in the kitchen, and large obtrusive radiators in every room.

Sorry if I touched a nerve there...was just an observation from that particular program. Similar regarding the lurid wallpaper I guess, though the laundry in the kitchen is more prevalent in the older houses often shown on TV shows, as there wasn't room for a separate utility room.

The large radiators are mostly unavoidable though because gas fired central heating is probably the most common type in the UK. Underfloor would be nice, but wasn't common years ago when many of the houses shown on TV were made. Heat pump units are becoming more popular, but you still have the issue of a large (usually) white lump hung on the wall. Some people like big fireplaces but then put a big TV above them, then have to sit craning their necks upwards to watch, especially in the generally smaller UK houses. I took my fireplace out as there's no need with central heating and almost 'passive house' levels of insulation.

 

[lammie200]

i see what you're saying with old vs new and agree. but i think there is also a shift in the attitudes of the upwardly mobile in the past 30 years or so to switch from straight opulence to "taste & authenticity," in everything, really.

some of my friends' nouveau riche parents as a kid were all about having the "most expensivest," regardless of taste or authenticity or something (like an 80 thousand dollar "sports car" that's automatic - don't worry about it, just know i can blow 80k on a whim). self worth as a factor of spending capacity.

but nowadays the nouveau riche i see or know are more like they want you to know they're "cultured" - that they're designy, that they only buy farm-to-table, that they truly appreciate music on vinyl, etc. self worth as a factor of “i know how to spend my money.”

I don't disagree with any of that. It is a good observation. I will say that it is very likely that some of the cultured nouveau riche still miss the point on some of the things that are precious to make the whole act a contradiction. I think that many still trace trends that fade away quickly. If you have too much money you are probably very likely to spend some of it regardless of the need to do so.

 

[lammie200]

Some people like big fireplaces but then put a big TV above them, then have to sit craning their necks upwards to watch...

One of my design pet peeves. Never put a TV above a fireplace. Very unsettling IMHO. Fireplaces are their own thing. TVs are their own thing. I don't even like concealed TVs above fireplaces. But people do it and request it all the time. I have even worked on houses where the TV drops down out of the ceiling above a fireplace. If you have the space I can't see any reason why you would want a TV above a fireplace. BTW, because there is no need to burn fossil fuel for most of the houses that I work on many times I am not recommending fireplaces at all. The codes have long since outlawed open fireplaces anyway. You have to use glass doors.