Concert promotions and old timer bands.....

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Mad Kiwi, Jun 16, 2019.

  1. Greg_L

    Greg_L Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    969
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2018
    Location:
    Texas
    That's very true, but it's also a double-edged sword. That's where DIY can work against you. The beauty of self-recording and the internet is that anyone can record their stuff and get it out to the world. The drawback is that anyone can record their stuff and get it out to the world. There's just so much out there now. The thing that makes it easier to get yourself going is also the thing that makes it way harder to get yourself going because everyone else is doing the same thing.
     
    Muddslide likes this.
  2. kelnet

    kelnet Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    25,993
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2008
    Location:
    Port Moody, BC
    What do you mean "replacement"? Do mean someone who sounds just like that, or someone with similar success, or just someone who keeps selling tickets even though they're really old?
     
  3. oceanblue

    oceanblue Tele-Meister

    Age:
    57
    Posts:
    325
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2018
    Location:
    Florida

    I was surprised at how many basically averaged one or less shows per week. Maybe the days of gruelling "different town every night" tours are gone forever?

    2018 TOP 25 TOURS

    Rank; Act; Total Gross; Total Attendance; Number of Shows
    1; Ed Sheeran; $429,491,502; 4,800,441; 99
    2; Taylor Swift; $315,186,362; 2,636,355; 48
    3; Beyoncé and Jay-Z; $253,514,983; 2,177,049; 48
    4; Bruno Mars; $237,770,168; 1,929,456; 100
    5; Pink; $180,402,074; 1,271,730; 88
    6; Justin Timberlake; $149,277,272; 1,175,216; 76
    7; U2; $119,203,900; 840,151; 55
    8; The Rolling Stones; $117,844,618; 750,874; 14
    9; Kenny Chesney; $114,333,176; 1,298,089; 42
    10; Journey & Def Leppard; $97,095,894; 1,003,198; 60
    11; Eagles; $93,454,297; 574,721; 34
    12; Drake; $81,446,702; 693,189; 44
    13; Depeche Mode; $78,804,765; 926.682; 54
    14; Foo Fighters; $77,750,695; 930,310; 47
    15; Celine Dion; $76,465,107; 376,431; 51
    16; Billy Joel; $70,227,385; 589,813; 24
    17; Luke Bryan; $67,572,102; 935,668; 50
    18; Luis Miguel; $64,935,983; 612,818; 72
    19; Harry Styles; $61,073,923; 774,473; 65
    20; Dead & Company; $56,220,873; 689,783; 42
    21; Andre Rieu; $55,933,149; 640,284; 88
    22; Elton John; $55,387,328; 351,817; 45
    23; Shania Twain; $52,587,060; 630,44; 55
    24; Trans-Siberian Orchestra; $50,228,977; 864,132; 86
    25; Jay-Z; $45,496,805; 401,921; 30
     
  4. Muddslide

    Muddslide Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,084
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Location:
    Gypsy Caravan
    This is so true. I've been making music for over 20 years...home recording that is. I used to gig all the time prior to that going back to the early 80s.

    I enjoy just the process of making the music, but part of the entire drive to do it is the idea that there might be an audience for it. Not that I ever expect anything to be a moneymaker--that's not the point and I have no interest or expectation of that.

    A friend of mine and I record music fairly prolifically, alone and collaboratively. He performs live; I don't. We live in separate states. We have stuck some things on bandcamp, are going to start a YouTube channel...there's a blog, etc., but we'd really like to have a DIY label and "release" our music on CD and such...

    But we both struggle with "why?" Not to mention...how? Physical music formats are almost totally passe with most segments of the music-loving public. We are old school...we'd still like to have CDs and tapes and stickers and shirts and such for sale. We can do all that, and do it in-house, but it takes time, energy and especially expense. I doubt we'd ever recoup the $$$ put into it even though it'd be nice to think there are people who enjoy having a CD or whatever of our stuff and listening to it.

    We both go back and forth between "Do we mess with this, or just log tons of music and let someone sort it all out after we croak?"

    I'm not sure it matters at all.

    One thing we've kicked around is maybe putting together a 2-disc sampler of our stuff with some other promo things and sending it out to various online magazines, blogs and radio stations that review/play our sort of music.

    There's just SO many people doing it. I think our work is good, and interesting, and its own thing, but it's tough to see the point of it when on every block there's a dozen kids with a phone app looping beats and samples and producing music and shoving it on youtube with great frequency.

    I am also on the fence about even continuing the home recording stuff and maybe just starting to play guitar at nursing homes and small venues, just doing old rockabilly and stuff.

    I don't have time or energy to do everything I'd like to with music. heck, I don't even get to LISTEN to it as much as I'd like...


    I think I just mean there are some bands/artists that transcend simply being a "pop/rock act" and become part of our cultural fabric.

    PS-- Huge fan of Joyce.
     
  5. Norris Vulcan

    Norris Vulcan Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    689
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2015
    Location:
    Somerset, UK, Europe
    Do you want a record deal, and live gigs, and promotional appearances, etc ?
    Or are you happy with the level you're at now, but would like an audience ?

    You kind of answered your own question about the Sampler Disc: There's so many people doing it.
    So why do it ? It sounds like an old-school approach.

    How about give stuff away for free, or "pay what you like" ? What have you got to lose - and you may pick up some followers.
     
  6. beninma

    beninma Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Age:
    42
    Posts:
    2,491
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I don't think it being easy to record can be a bad thing at all.

    In the old days you had:
    - Hard/expensive to record well
    - Well oiled money making machine that could find the best music and market it and filter out the rest

    Now we have:
    - Easy/cheap to record well
    - The marketing/filtering machine is mostly destroyed

    We just haven't figured out how to build a new machine.. hopefully one that treats every one better. But one is still needed.
     
    SolidSteak likes this.
  7. Greg_L

    Greg_L Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    969
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2018
    Location:
    Texas
    The only drawback to the new model IMO is saturation and the pool is much wider but also much shallower. There is a lot of really bad crap one has to wade through and defeat to get noticed. At the same time, your potential audience also has to wade through that same garbage heap to find you.

    The one good thing about "the old days" was that a band had to have their **** together to enter a studio and record music. Even if it was for their own distribution, if it was on their dime they usually had their ducks in a row before they'd lay out that kind of financial commitment. They had skin in the game. It wasn't like now, where any asshat can download cracked software and "record" an entire album without actually making a sound or miking anything at all.
     
    Muddslide likes this.
  8. beninma

    beninma Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Age:
    42
    Posts:
    2,491
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    The pool being wider & shallower & harder to navigate just means we don't have the right tools for it yet.

    That pool was always wide/shallow/hard to navigate it's just you didn't have to navigate it yourself cause the record companies paid people to do it for you, and they were good at it cause it was their job. :)

    Bandcamp, soundcloud, youtube, instagram, whatever, something isn't quite there yet. None of these platforms seem to have a good model to upvote good quality stuff and push down bad stuff that actually works well.
     
  9. Greg_L

    Greg_L Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    969
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2018
    Location:
    Texas
    It's still just a general popularity contest.

    I think the pool is wider and shallower because it's harder to get gigs for most bands. I'm not that old, but I remember a time when an original material band could get paid to play and could maybe even sustain themselves off of gigs and sales. There was always competition, but not as much. I was in one of those bands. We never got close to being rich or successful, but we didn't have to keep day jobs either. That's pretty much impossible now. There are too many bands, and too many of them are happy to play for free....or worse...pay to play. They're so desperate just to play live they'll actually hemorrhage money to do it. They line themselves up a little tour just to leave town to play at an empty club and make zero dollars. It's horrible. It makes no sense. And all this has done is shifted all of the power to club owners and shady promoters that prey on these dummies. Greasy promoter books a D-list national act that can't fill a pub anymore, and pays their guarantee from fees he collects from the opening bands. So he schedules 5 or 6 local openers, they all pay him, they get a 20 minute set, he pays the "big" band from the little bands buying their own tickets, and he pockets the rest. The "big" band gets paid no matter what they draw, the promoter gets paid for basically doing nothing, the bar makes whatever beer it sells like any other day, and all those openers paid for it all. F**K THAT.
     
    beach bob likes this.
  10. beninma

    beninma Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Age:
    42
    Posts:
    2,491
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    It's exactly the same scenario as other "occupations" where you "play" at work and want to be compensated for it.

    E.x. Photography has been changed the same way as gear got cheap and access got easier and easier. Actually photography is probably a lot worse cause the time investment to become a good photographer is much much smaller than to become a skilled musician.
     
  11. Greg_L

    Greg_L Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    969
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2018
    Location:
    Texas
    Oh I can imagine. With DSLR cameras and Photoshop everyone thinks they're a photographer.
     
  12. slauson slim

    slauson slim Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,052
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Location:
    By The Levee
    Record Industry find the best music? Frankie Avalon, Bobby Rydell, Chubby Checker, Freddie and the Dreamers, 1910 Fruitgum Company, Blink 182, Hootie and the Blowfish, Disco Duck, village Peoples....nothing but the best.
     
    Greg_L likes this.
  13. Norris Vulcan

    Norris Vulcan Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    689
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2015
    Location:
    Somerset, UK, Europe
    The Record Industry finds the most marketable music, always did and still does...
    Quality is not an issue.
     
    Mad Kiwi likes this.
  14. Muddslide

    Muddslide Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,084
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Location:
    Gypsy Caravan
    Well and truly spoken.

    ...and again.
     
    Greg_L likes this.
  15. kelnet

    kelnet Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    25,993
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2008
    Location:
    Port Moody, BC
    Well, with that definition, we can say that Beyoncé, Lady Gaga, U2, Snoop, and Jennifer Lopez have all achieved that status. Whether or not we include ourselves in that culture is a whole other question, and one that applied to Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, and the others you mentioned.
    Those older icons have definitely been replaced.
     
  16. Greg_L

    Greg_L Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    969
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2018
    Location:
    Texas
    Lol. Really?

    The record industry used to tell people what and who to like. In an age where information and options were limited, that was easy to fall for. They've lost that power to a large degree. They didn't always find talent. They often manufactured "talent" and forced it on the masses. They created what was marketable.
     
  17. beninma

    beninma Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Age:
    42
    Posts:
    2,491
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I think this is still happening they're just doing it in different ways.

    Look at how successful Disney has been putting tweens on TV, managing their path through teenage years, and then helping them pivot into Pop/Hip-Hop music superstars because they're a known name.

    Quick Google search immediately came up with a page of these...

    Vanessa Hudgens
    Zendaya
    Jonas Brothers
    Hillary Duff
    Selena Gomez
    Demi Lovato
    Christina Aguilera
    Justin Timberlake
    Miley Cyrus
    Britney Spears

    All manufactured by that machine AFAICT and very little on that list anyone here would like but a lot of teens the last 20 years spent their time listening to them instead of organic rock bands that came up on their own and could write songs, play their own instruments and sing their own songs live without auto-tune.
     
    Muddslide likes this.
  18. Muddslide

    Muddslide Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,084
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Location:
    Gypsy Caravan
    Well, U2 have themselves been around 40 years at this point.

    As for the others, you're not wrong, but I'd argue they for the most part are more cultural icons than musical ones. More celeb/personality types. Technically it's within music, but I personally wouldn't draw specifically musical comparisons between, say, Beyonce and Ray Charles, or Lady Gaga and Johnny Cash.

    Perhaps equally famous, yes, but slightly different arena. To my mind anyway.

    Cash, Ray, Willie...those cats are/were actual musicians and innovators. The others are more just entertainers. IMO.
     
  19. Greg_L

    Greg_L Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    969
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2018
    Location:
    Texas
    Right. The only thing I really notice much different about most of that list compared to the old model is that they're like singular multimedia stars and none of them are part of a "band". Maybe that's the new model. At least half that list are actors as much as or more than pop stars. I recognize all of those names, but for me, like Selena Gomez...what does she actually do? Is she a singer? TV star? I'm not questioning her credibility, I genuinely have no actual idea. I know she's famous as hell, but from/for what?

    And I know Timberlake, Aguilera, and Miley Cyrus can actually perform. Timberlake is a talented guy. Miley Cyrus, whether one likes her schtick or not, has some pipes. She can actually sing. Same with Christina Aguilera. The rest...I'm not sure.
     
  20. Greg_L

    Greg_L Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    969
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2018
    Location:
    Texas
    Lady Gaga is pretty legit though. We know her as the meat dress wearing chameleon weirdo, right? But before that, she toiled away in NYC piano bars. As far as I know she hustled and paid her dues for a long time before she created her persona.
     
    Mad Kiwi and stevemc like this.
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.