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Concept Idea for new Reissue Amps.....Calling all TDPRI Members!!!!!!!

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by The-Kid, Dec 31, 2019.

Reissue Plus. Reissues with modern Features

This poll will close on Nov 30, 2021 at 5:39 AM.
  1. Yes

  2. No

  3. Not sure

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    You keep making this assertion, and those of us who've delved into vintage Fenders and modded them - in my case split channel, footswich boost, modded channels - tell you that the moment you add or subtract it's no longer 'vintage'. Everything has an impact

    To add an FX loop Marshall's engineers jammed an extra valve into the Bassman circuit to drive and recover the signal, because otherwise like reverb in a Fender you lose too much gain.

    And there's not a ton of gain in these to start with. There's also not much real estate in these with the reverb transformer.

    To add that in a PR brings you to six valves where you don't have it. In a TRRI or DRRI to seven.

    If you stick opamps in these the purists and punters will crucify you, simple solution though that is.

    Then there's marketing . We already have people confused between BF and 68 Custom RIs. Are you going to have a special retromod version of each? That's an awful lot of heavy hardware for dealers to support and carry.

    Added confusion, and you have to keep vendors happy who may suffer costs if they get excessive returns due to inappropriate purchase.

    Any manufacturer has to consider all these things.

    You're saying Mesas aren't Fenders - but since the Blue Angel and Express series the clean channel is a BF clean channel with - effects loop, DI in some cases and extra controls like mids, presence and gain/MV.

    You said it yourself - it's not a Fender because the additional capabilities like bigger transformers and Dyna-power remove the breakup character of the 6V6 and 6L6 Fenders. Close - but no cigar.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
  2. Si G X

    Si G X Tele-Afflicted

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    Just buy an amp that suits your needs... there's a lot to choose from.
     
  3. 41144

    41144 Tele-Afflicted

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    Interesting idea The_Kid but can't personally see it happening. Why?

    The R&D to install all those options and retain the essential tones would put off Fender unless they knew they could sell multi-thousands of units.
    Mess with any electronic circuit and you create unforseen problems elsewhere in the circuit.
    Regarding the whole concept ... Surely that's why we have boutique builders out there capable of fulfilling our tech. desires?
     
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  4. The-Kid

    The-Kid Tele-Holic

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    Sure you add stuff to it, its not vintage I get it....

    We agree thats not the point man.

    You add these features to a RI its not a RI. Agreed great.

    Keeping that in mind then youd stick to the regular RI if your a "purist" but if like me youd want more features knowing your not getting a real RI but something 100% identical but with additional stuff added....why not?




    Lets cross the next bridge.

    By your logic, comparing Mesa and Fender.....a Super Sonic in Fat or Bright sound nothing like a Fender because it has an FX loop and master....again just no. This is nonsense as well. They sound like Fender amps on the clean channel




    I mean I understand if you say. Maybe it will cost to much, maybe there wont be interest, they looked in to but it wont sell etc etc etc and I would agree with you but what you said so far doesnt convince me. Out of respect your just not hitting any points here.

    If anything it reafirms that these would perform as well as the Reissue but with extra toys like MV.



    I dont care about the nastalgia of, "oh my there are OP buffers and SS stuff inside there, its the devil...". I am damn sure Fender could figure a way.
     
  5. The-Kid

    The-Kid Tele-Holic

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    @Dacious

    Also saying that adding this stuff will not make them sound good.....your telling me now this is a real question I want you to answer and take time if you need....


    Your saying if I add an Atteneuator to my Princeton RI, it will sound nothing like a Princeton RI anymore? It will react nothing like a Fender? It wont even sound the same with fully open MV or a switch that turns MV off as without even having it?

    Please tell that to other owners of Princetons RI, TRRI and DRRI who have done this and they will laugh at you.

    Now dont mean to put you on the spot but what are you saying excatly.
     
  6. The-Kid

    The-Kid Tele-Holic

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    Look at my link to Strat-Talk plenty of interest. Also here with nearly 30% of the vote. Yes not overhwhelming support but good enough to see some market potential.

    And regarding the second part. The dudes at Fender could figure it out somehow, they have been doing it for years.

    The question is, is there significant intrest?

    Not overwhelming but significant?


    Answear......


    Yes.



    And I dont like Bowtiq......isnt that were women buy panty hose?
     
  7. maxvintage

    maxvintage Friend of Leo's

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    I don't think anyone is "scared." Just in my case, not interested. If I wanted an effects loop, which I don't, I'd just look for an amp designed from the ground up with an effects loop. If I wanted an attenuator on board--which I don't--I'd be looking at how the attentuation was managed. I mean attenuators aren't all the same. If I wanted a Di out I'd be considering active or passive? There again, "a DI" is potentially a lot of different things.

    Personally, it seems to me that there are already a ton of amps that have what you want but don't say "reissue" on them. But good luck to you in your quest
     
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  8. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    I haven't said that at all. I make no comment about sounding good with attenuators or op amp chip driven FX loops

    I've had a series of Boogies.

    F50. Express 50, Express 25, TA15, TA30, Mark V:25. I ended up moving them all on.
    I
    also owned a 70 watt Pro Reverb, 78 Vibrolux Reverb, 78 Princeton Reverb, reissue 5F1 EC Vibrochamp and 68 and 78 Vibrochamp. I kept a Fender Greta - modded for speaker and tubes.

    All of them recapped, modded for biasing and in the case of the VR I owned for ten years, split channel, Brown/Marshall Normal, BFd Vibrato channel.

    I now have a 83 Superchamp I've tweaked for circuit, overdrive, footswich of both channels plus circuit mods.

    I'm firmly in the camp that says reversible mods to nonvintage amps is fine. And you should cure problems and make it your own.

    I like the Vox AC10 - it's a great little amp even if it's first clean buffer and reverb stage is opamps.

    I'm just saying Fender is selling moderate amounts of reissue amps for good money, and the vastly expanded market for a reissue amp, if fitted with nothing more than a FX loop or DI, or a market prepared to pay $100 more for a variation that does, isn't there.

    I've had amps with FX loops and simply never bothered to use them beyond experimenting. DIs or lineouts sound like ass to me into a PA; Sennheiser E609 hung over the front sounds way better and doubles as a kick mic.

    Most reissue guys never use trem, but you said it yourself - the Supersonic 22 which is a DR with effects loop and lineout, a footswitchable hot channel but is otherwise very similar barely registers in sales. Whereas the DRRi is probably with the PRRI the most frequently bought reissue amp.

    I'm not saying anything you've suggested is stupid or bad. Just an answer to a question no-one in the market for a reissue amp is asking. If they do, there's a plethora of other amps Fender and others makes that do that. For considerable R&D, marketing, logistics, manufacturing cost not even 1% in increased sales.

    The best way to make a small fortune is to start with a large one and try to leverage your successful product to be something it's not.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
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  9. The-Kid

    The-Kid Tele-Holic

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    Good suggestion....

    Trouble none of those amps are Fenders or sound like a real RI.

    Im not in it solely for the features. Im in it for the sound, the features are just tools to help shape and create sound which I would appreciate.

    But point taken
     
  10. The-Kid

    The-Kid Tele-Holic

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    But it is. If 3 out of 10 people in the market think yes this is good. Thats enough for them to make some as is the case here and make some dough from that market.

    If it was 1 out of 10 yeah id agree with you and stop this right here......but this is nearly 1/3 of people. Even at 1/4 of the people there is a market there.


    Also look at the support at Strat talk its more like 7/10 there. Well more than enough.

    I will give another month or two before I send an email to Fender but yeah given the trend I feel the support is there from customers.

    I understand this may not be for you.....


    But some of us are dying for something like this and just want Fender to make it already.


    They have been for years and years missing this market I feel and its about time they get some and make em for tone junkies like me.
     
  11. ping-ping-clicka

    ping-ping-clicka Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

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    Build a Princeton, a Deluxe, and a Champ that really sounds as good as the originals, incorporating the modern features of the high end amp designers
    Diezel, Mesa Boogie, Randalls discontinued Satan It's available under a different name).

    Me, not having made it out to the garage, yet ,I'll stick with my Digitech GSP1101,and RP360
     
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  12. Chunkocaster

    Chunkocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    [​IMG]
     
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  13. mugen74

    mugen74 Tele-Holic

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    Why is this conversation still going on? We aren’t going to convince this kid of anything. There are already amps that will do exactly what you want. If it has to say Fender on it for you to be happy, they offer amps with these features. You already said you don’t care if it sounds like the real thing so just buy an amp with this stuff on it. This is going no where.

    jh
     
  14. The-Kid

    The-Kid Tele-Holic

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    To those who agree this is a good idea thanks for the support and remember that this isnt my effort. Its a community effort and together maybe they wont make them....maybe they will..... cool....but if there are enough of us to petetion its worth a try for the big whigs at Fender to take under consideration.


    Thanks all fellow TDPRI members. All welcome.



    Hey guys @1300 E Valencia @Dacious @maxvintage and others who may not the agree with the concept I understand were your coming from and wether you are on board or not thanks for your insight and much appreciated view point.




    In this discusions its important to have meaningful conversation wether we agree or do not agree. That is what creates bridges and in my opinion friendships, agree or disagree :)




    Now I know Im not going to convince you or we may never agree but I find these conversations fruitful and productive and I hope everyone taking part in them do as well.



    Cheers and happy new years to all who participated so far.
     
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  15. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I don't see the need for such a product, or rather, I don't see why you don't just get what you want now. What's missing?

    What you are asking for is a modded amp...so why not take the amp...and mod it ?

    If you like "Amp X" but wish it had features "B" "Q" & "T" ... then add them. Others love "Amp X" how it is...Features from "A" to "Z³" are availabe...there is no problem, if anyone wants them...Simple; add them.
    There are sufficient people around with a hot and throbbing iron just waiting to poke it into your chassis. Do a mod, be it autonomous, or by a freind, or a local tech.
    Many 100,000's of dedicated forum posts are about how to do anything you could imagine to an amp. So many good books. So many workshops. So much help is available to anyone, anywhere, for anything.
    If you want it..."So" ....make it "So"

    Maybe I don't get the mentality of the OP....it's not for sale..so..?
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
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  16. hdvades

    hdvades Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    Now that's a very mature statement...sarc

    On the other hand you could take your favorite RI to one of those aforementioned places that sell panties and have it modded to your preferences plus it will say "Fender". That would be a bonus win-win. The idea that these must be manufactured by Fender is asking a lot imho.

    On a serious note...I'm not saying your ideas are wrong. Money can buy just about anything these days. From a business POV these ideas do not seem cost effective nor profitable. I could be wrong. Just my two cents.
     
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  17. The-Kid

    The-Kid Tele-Holic

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    I understand man....

    Im a business major and with an AA and AS working on my bachelor's so I get the business side of it and marketing and why there are so many damn things going against this concept.


    I understand.....



    But by golly the guitarist in me is like screw corporate, screw nostalgia, screw novelties, screw the business talk......


    And lets make it because its a fun and cool idea!!!!


    You know?




    What happened to that?

    What happened to fun..........




    Isnt that fun you know :)


    I know its not a rational argument and its not meant to be one but damn. This is life, lets make the most of it and make dreams real hahahahhaha


    It just appeals to the guitarist in me and the idea is just well.....









    Fun!!!

    Exciting!!!!

    And aint no balance sheets or graphs ganna change that. It just seems like a cool idea and others seem to apporove. Again not as much as those who dont approve but enough....hopefully :)

    And thats enough for me to make them.
     
  18. mugen74

    mugen74 Tele-Holic

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    Yep, this is the point I stopped taking any of this even half seriously. And if you think selling an amp to 3 out of 10 people is good business, rethink your business degree.

    jh
     
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  19. Octorfunk

    Octorfunk Tele-Holic

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    It's already been said, but as soon as you add attenuation, FX loops & recording DI, etc., it loses the "vintage/reissue" appeal. The whole idea is that it's as close to the original as possible.

    None of that matters to me personally, but I'm sure it does to the people in the market for a "reissue" amp.

    And as you've already seen here, as soon as you add those features, everyone starts pointing out how it's no longer a true reissue.

    Is it a good idea? Yep.
    Will Fender make it? I doubt it.
     
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  20. Apache Snow

    Apache Snow Tele-Meister

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    And it goes on and on and on but the answer is still the same..NO
     
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