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Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by The-Kid, Dec 31, 2019.
Thank you, sir!
I would rather see totally new products. That’s just me.
Nah. I'm more interested in less features and less expensive.
A lot less features and a lot less expensive....
Fender champ at old school pawn shop pricing perhaps.
And Kid, sorry, but by the impression I am getting, if I had to ride to a gig with you, you'd have to find a different way back.....
I understand the sentiment but what scares some people about this?
It isnt as if I am proposing that the Reissues get goten rid of.
This wont be adding digital stuff its just an idea to add 3 features to amps we already like and extending the line to include them. The regular reissues line is never going away and wont change.
Thats the concept.
If the the thing you love is still going to be there why knock this concept just because you dont find personal use for it? Its still a neat concept.
Its a pretty neat concept and well Id buy one instantly if they came out and Im pretty sure others would too and would see the benefits of something like this
Thanks for those who voted and participates so far.
Its cool, thanks man.
Im a little rough around the edges but my intention is a good one I feel and thats all I am here for.
Am working on that and I know Im a pain in the......sometimes but I try not to be hahahha
Good to see votes and discussion regarding this. Dont have overwhelming support but now a days who can get 10 random people to agree on the same thing hahaha
Some support for these is better than none and I appreciate the help from both No and Yes parties.
Keep em coming fellas.
Thanks and happy new years and well wishes to all!!!
Just re-issue the Champ exactly as it started. No bells and whistles. I'm waiting to get my '73 back from Skip Simmons.
ah....to be young again.good luck kid!
Fender already did this. You could buy a TRRI and a Fender 'The Twin' at the same time. It sounded somewhat like a TRRI but lost vibrato.
It added series or parallel input, lineout, effects loop and a quarter power switch.
It bombed - not because it's a bad amp but all the additions made it something else. Guys walked straight past it.
Ditto the very handy Supersonic/Prosonic line. Fender had/has a Professional line with modified classics like Pro Reverb, Super Rev in it. Judging by perceived secondhand units for sale/sold they sell at a trickle.
Probably not bad amps but people already vote with their wallets.
Could Fender re-engineer the DRRI, TRRI etc for what you want? Sure. Would it make a significant issue to sales? Nup.
You'd have to add solid-state driver/recovery for FX loop and/or DI. A bit against the ethos of the line. And probably - largely unused by guys who'd buy them. Otherwise you'd be adding one and probably two tubes and new complex circuitry. A bit like adding a spa into a submarine. Nice - but worth it?
There's lots of people who think 'if they'd just do this I'd have my perfect guitar/amp' but Fender has probably already considered and rejected this stuff in most cases.
In my mind, the new Tone Master series meets all of these requirements except tubes.
I dont know how youd pack all these extra fearures into an amp and somehow make it lighter if you're keeping the tubes.
Maybe Fender could liscence the NuTube technology from Korg/Vox but even then last I checked their Nutube was just a 12AX7. They dont have one that does 6L6, 6V6 etc.
In my mind you have technology embracers, and you have purists. Most times amp makers try to combine the two, players end up disappointed.
Now, if you wanted your suped up Reissues and didnt mind adding the extra weight, that could be interesting. But I suspect the purists would swear they dont sound as good, and the technology embracers would balk at the weight and inconvenience.
To be fair i think its a great idea, I just doubt Fender would ever make these as they'd likely not see a big enough return on investment.
Yeah, just what we need. $3k amps trying their damnest to sound like $2k amps....
First problem with the presented concept for me..... Once I get past having it beat into me 12 times or more.....
A DI signal from a classic tube amp is just not going to translate as expected. Ever. Thats just optimistic.
An amp of high enough wattage for a moderate size setting suppressed to a bedroom practice/project studio level is and always will be at best.... A compromise. I am open minded to a solution that bridges the gap, but so far all I have experienced has been a result that doesnt do either justice.
I wish that wasnt the case.
Maybe if the above wasnt true?
I dunno. (Yawn.)
IMHO the presented solution needs a problem maybe.
This is the best response to this. It's like - the major car companies have already done all the engineering for ICE cars. Everything they are going to release is already in the can engine/trans wise. They are all ready to flick the switch on EVs, supercars and all.
Fender is hoping beyond hope Tonemasters take off. They'd love nothing more than to sell expensive handwired tube amps to people who absolutely must have one, and Tonemasters to everyone else, preferably 4 or 5 from micro sized to Twin Reverb, for when nothing exceeds like excess.
To build multi-channels or whatever functions you need is a lot in the software domain and you can build it in and liberate features in successive cosmetic upgrade releases. Much like your 200hp and 250hp cars are mechanically identical and a software patch difference
Re-engineering 60 year old tube platforms - needle in haystack to get the right blend to meaningfully appeal to market at the right price.
Like adding hybrid battery packs to a steam engine.
"Same amp added features" IS A NEW !@#$ AMP MODEL.
Besides which, we now have the Tone Masters. Problem solved. Want a Princeton? Turn the Output knob down to 12 watts. Everybody buy one and go home.
Besides which, outboard stuff gives you the option of buying exactly what you need. There are approximately 48 bazillion outboard devices to plug your '68 Silverface into to get exactly the same results without having to buy a nasty "hybrid" amp, which is exactly what these things will be called.
Besides which, no matter what "Extra Features" you add, half the people on this forum will say "too much", half will say "not enough", and the last half will say the Katana is better. And everyone will say they're too expensive and Fender should give them away for free.
If you don't believe this, read the Tone Master threads.
And why are you still standing on my lawn!?
Nostalgia is not that important to me. If I want modern features, I get a modern amp.
Wait a minute, I am trying to process the concept that 150% of the forum represents a majority 75% opinion.
That ones gonna take a minute...... gotta figure out which of the three halves is which!
wanna discuss real world amp sales statistics as opposed to the Kids imaginative scenario?
last I saw, of all overall gear sales, electric guitar amplifiers had apparently fallen off the edge of our flat earth.
I've seen a thread about a similar amp on here. People immediately complained about the 6SJ7.
Haha.. .after doing my version of the PRRI, I started to think it might be a nice twist for Fender to do.
In one of the Tonemaster threads that popped up I mentioned that it was a great opportunity for Fender to basically squeeze in all of the classic amps into a lightweight, affordable platform.
In my mind, they could do 3 lines in a Princeton, Deluxe or Twin size, and in tweed, brownface and blackface versions. 9 amps to cover every sound and sizing option that people can and will buy.
I just went through this....
As said I am not saying the RI 65 line be gotten rid off...it should remain as staple for ever. But their should be an extension of exactly the same amps we love in the 65 RI but with added features as a seperate line obviosly costing a bit more than the standard versions for us tone junkies.
And while I appreciate your wisdom and input if ToneMasters were really all that...
Well I would have saved myself self 200 bucks no after discount and gotten a Deluxe ToneMaster or the Twin no?
But I tried them and well as good as they sound and they do sound good. Well yeah nowhere close to the real thing next to the real Deluxe and Twin.
And I could have easily have gotten either a real Twin or Deluxe as the Deluxe cost the same as the LTD Princeton 112 Bordauex and the Twin is not much more after Discount but prefered the Princeton....if it was ToneMasters versus the RIs....RI all day Tonemasters dont compare.
So I bought myself ....a real amp, even if they had a Tonemaster Princeton for 700$ I wouldnt get one after comparing the RI to the Tonemaster, they just arent close. I dont have to read a thread....I just played them in store and as said, they are not even close my man.
And also if people like you say, love the ToneMasters and as you say they are indistinguishable from the real ones....which I mean I dont buy because I have found otherwise and as said did not even consider it because Im not here to save money on something like the Tonemaster, Im here to get the real deal and thats RI....
If they were as good as the real ones maybe I would have considered one but not even close IMO and IME in the same room as the real amps.
Given this why wouldnt the same features work if added to the RI series, which are the real deal, if they work fantastically on the fake versions we call Tonemaster? And similar features work to great effect on other real tube amps why wouldnt they work as good in a Reissue as they do on fake Tonemasters or other real Tube amps with the features I suggested?
What sense does that make?
No sense at all to be honest. It makes no sense at all.
If you want to sit and pretend a Tonemaster is as good as the real deal and "save money" do tell yourself that but it doesnt make it so IME comparing both and its not the same as my concept. You can say it 1,000,000 times it doesnt convice me after playing them in the same room.
Regarding calling the Concept a Hybrid amp....
How many tube amps have these features...MeSa, Marshall, Hughes Ketner, Vox, Orange, etc etc etc....they all make amps with FX Loop, DI and Master. No one would consider an AC30 a Marshall DSl100 or an Orange Thunderverb a hybrid amp. This notion is pure nonsense.
Adding an FX loop, Master and DI to the Reissue wouldnt make it a Hybrid?
It would make it a Reisse tube amp with added featuers same as all other tube amps that have similar features.
So if I add a passive attenuator to my Princeton its no longer a Reissue....again nonsense it makes it a Reissue with an attenuator pure and simple.
Its like saying adding a single coil sized humbucker to a AVRI doesnt make it a AVRI anymore. It is still an AVRI but with a single coil sized humbucker.