Compressor question

Discussion in 'Finely Finished' started by Sarrkazztic, Dec 3, 2010.

  1. Sarrkazztic

    Sarrkazztic Tele-Meister

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    What is the smallest air compressor that could feasibly be used for a HVLP spraying setup?

    Could something like this be used?

    [​IMG]

    2 gallon 100 max psi 120 volt 60hz 2a air compressor
     
  2. Colt W. Knight

    Colt W. Knight Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I think a 20 gallon compressor would be pushing it, but 30 would be adequate. Mine is 60 gallon 8.5 hp. Runs on 220
     
  3. onenotetom

    onenotetom Tele-Afflicted

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    For spraying guitars yes. If you wait until the pressure is built up all the way it will hardly run when spraying.
     
  4. Sarrkazztic

    Sarrkazztic Tele-Meister

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    Yeah what I am talking about is spraying 1 maybe 2 guitars period. I am not going to be the guy who builds 100 guitars and needs something like that. I just want to be able to spray 2 guitars that I am planning on building soon. I do not want to go overboard with a tool that will not get used very much.
     
  5. Colt W. Knight

    Colt W. Knight Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I disagree with this.
     
  6. K-Line

    K-Line Tele-Holic Vendor Member

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    2 gal will not work. You will get uneven pressure.
     
  7. Bolide

    Bolide Friend of Leo's

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    I am not an expert on paint and finishes, but I do know my way around air systems, and while an air banger will work, banging the air to 90-120 psi just to expand it to 6psi is taking the air on the scenic route to work.

    There are complete High-Volume Low-Pressure paint systems from reputable manufacturers that cost less than the minimal air banger recommended by Colt W. Knight, whose experience I respect.


    The blower for a HVLP setup is really not much more than a slightly larger vacuum cleaner blower (and I suspect some are just that, but I wouldn't suggest trying to verify this through trial and error on your part). The cost less than an air banger, and are light enough to pick up and carry with one hand (preferably on the end of an arm).

    If you already have an airbanger setup, or anticipate needing one for other tools in the immediate future that is an option. But in addition to cost and inneficiency there are a couple of other concerns.
    First is that the air coming out of the pressure reducing valve is going to get real cold. Putting a cold paint on a room temperature surface does not seem like the way to go.
    Second is that air bangers have to have their valves and pistons lubricated, which means oil, which means oil getting into the cylinder, which means oil carrying over in the motive air. While you will be putting (at additional cost) oil traps between the reducers and the sprayer, these traps are not fail-proof, and I'm sure there are a couple of folk who can tell you stories of being within a moment of finising a spray job that is coming out perfect only to have the sprayer start spattering oil everywhere.
     
  8. Colt W. Knight

    Colt W. Knight Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I am not following you Bolide?

    Are you comparing self contained paint rigs to gravitiy fed guns and compressors?
     
  9. Bolide

    Bolide Friend of Leo's

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    No.

    The HVLP systems are not self contained, the blower is a separate unit from the spray gun or other application apparatus, and you have to snake wrestle a hawking big hose (3/4" compared with the more familiar 1/4" whip used in conventional spray rigs) between the air supply and the sprayer, but since the requirements are for ~100cfm @4-8 psi, vs. ~10cfm @40-60psi for the conventional paint spray systems the blower basically a beefed up fan, rather than a compressor with a piston and a cylinder.

    Conventional rigs are now restricted/prohibited in Cali.

    In addition to more stable temp and cleaner air, HVLP also boasts of less overspray than conventional rigs, and cost savings as with less overspray more of the treatment hits the target. There is a full range of applicators available for HVLP, gravity fed, syphon fed, rollers, airbrushes, the whole nine yards. There are also reducing stations that will drop line air (90-120 psi) down to run HVLP, where there is hard mounted line air that makes that practical.

    No, these rigs are not "Power-Brushes". These do everything the conventional rigs do; Whether they do it better, as the ad copy claims, or even as well, I cannot say. Only someone who has thoroughly learned and used both set-ups has a basis for that comparison.
     
  10. HardlyDangerous

    HardlyDangerous Tele-Holic

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    NO, too small
    thats the size i ran for my air brush, and it was to small for a small HVLP touch up gun.

    I use an 8 gallon air compressor from Harbor Freight with my HVLP guns. I paid about $80 on sale I would not recommend anything smaller then 8 gallon. I also recommend an oil type. then oiless compressors dont last very long running steady.

    I do a lot of custom motorcycle painting, and it works fine for clearing tanks and fairings etc
    just make sure you have a good regulator and water seperator
     
  11. flatfive

    flatfive Friend of Leo's

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    I relate to the question. I had a really difficult time figuring out
    what I needed to spray guitars.

    If you're really only planning on spraying a couple, and are going
    to use a finish like lacquer or shellac, you may want to look into
    a dedicated HVLP setup, as I think Bolide was suggesting.

    For example, this Earlex unit gets pretty good reviews.

    http://www.amazon.com/Earlex-HV3000-Spray-Station-Sprayer/dp/B000E24CDA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291739653&sr=8-1

    There are also cheaper Wagner units, like this one:

    http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-518080-Control-Spray-Sprayer/dp/B003PGQI48/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1291739710&sr=1-2

    Besides the price, these units are small, light, and easy to store.

    You can find some comments about these systems if you search
    TDPRI. I haven't used them, because I expect to paint more than
    a few guitars and want to have more flexibility in choice of spray guns.

    Also, remember that, if you're spraying lacquer or shellac, the finish
    doesn't have to be perfect out of the sprayer. You're going to be
    doing final sanding and polishing at the end in any case.
     
  12. Colt W. Knight

    Colt W. Knight Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    After you spend countless hours wet sanding in front of the TV, you really strive for as perfect a finish out of the gun as possible.
     
  13. flatfive

    flatfive Friend of Leo's

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    Why? Starting with 1200 grit? :lol:
     
  14. Colt W. Knight

    Colt W. Knight Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    400, 800, 1000, 1200, 2000
     
  15. MRJ5

    MRJ5 TDPRI Member

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    I will say at the start that I am not the brightest bulb on the tree when it comes to this subject but I will offer my thought on the subject.

    I use an Iwata LPH80 HVLP gun with a 1.2 nozzle and an E4 air gap.http://www.tcpglobal.com/spraygundepot/lph80.aspx [​IMG]

    It requires approx. 1.8 CFM air delivery volume. While my compressors are overkill for this gun (60 gal - 5 hp & 30 gal - 2.5 hp) any smaller compressor that can deliver roughly 2-4 CFM would work well for this gun. I would check specs for the gun you are using and match the compressor to it.

    While the discussion has looked at size tank and max pressure, I believe the air delivery volume of the compressor is the most important aspect. A larger volume air tank would help stablize the delivery if the compressor's max delivery were being tested however.

    I use dual filters and separators to assure clean air and have never had an issue with contamination. Keeping the equipment and lines clean is most important. For me it is probably more luck than skill I suppose. :D

    I also have a Wagner HVLP sprayer similar to the post above. I would never consider using it to paint guitars. I use mine for latex on siding or cabinents in the workshop and anything that uses thicker paints and does not require a perfect gloss finish. In my experience it just delivers way too much paint and has a habit of sputtering at the wrong moment. Usually a brush will even it out while wet and sandpaper can help after it dries.

    I have used cheaper equipment in the past but have found for things like burst finishes the better gun's spray is much more predictable. If you just spray clears or simple solid colors, you may be able to get by fine with cheaper equipment. Sanding and rubbing compound on these coatings can help correct minor flaws. Once you have used the good stuff however, it is tough to go back to the cheaper stuff.

    As was noted earlier, the better the finish out of the gun, the less work after and the better the end product.:D
     
  16. flatfive

    flatfive Friend of Leo's

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    I figured you did, Colt. My point was that the layers of lacquer
    melt into each other, so if you have sufficient lacquer built up,
    and you're starting with 400, irregularities on the surface aren't
    a big problem. It may just take slightly longer to get the
    first sanding pass flat.

    Am I wrong?
     
  17. Colt W. Knight

    Colt W. Knight Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    You can overcome irregularities on the surface, and if you are only wet sanding 1 guitar every few months, its probably not a big deal. But if you are wet sanding 4 at a time or one every week or two. ITS A PITA! If I get a rough finish, it usually takes me an hour or two longer to wet sand. Multiply that by 4, and its an entire day of sanding.
     
  18. flatfive

    flatfive Friend of Leo's

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    Thanks, Colt. I'm curious, about how long does it take you
    on average to do the first phase of wet sanding with 400 grit?
     
  19. Colt W. Knight

    Colt W. Knight Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Body, 20-30 minutes. I usually take about 2-3 hours to wet sand a neck and body on average.
     
  20. volowv

    volowv Tele-Meister

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    meanwhile, on another forum a completely unrelated topic is being discussed...

    #1 hey guys. i want to play guitar. will this amp work? 6" inch speaker, 10 watts, 120 volts, 60hz.

    #2 get a 30 watt amp at least. i'm using a twin reverb that does everything i need it to.

    #3 it'll work but it might not be that loud.

    #4 i just want to play guitar in my bedroom. do i really need a twin reverb?

    #5 that amp will blow up if you put it on ten.

    #6 no way. your tone is going to suck. even if you are just playing in your bedroom you still have to listen to it.

    #7 instead of buying a cheap amp why don't you get an acoustic? that way you don't even need an amp.

    #8 what? are you comparing a tele and twin reverb to an acoustic guitar?

    #9 no, but why lug around a huge amp? he just wants to play guitar. acoustic guitars are light and sound good. they won't damage your ears or your back.

    #10 there's no way you are going to be happy with that amp. get at least 20 watts.

    #11 alot of people like acoustic guitars. i'm probably going to get an electric because i want to use effects pedals.

    #12 i guess you can play an acoustic on the coach while watching TV but you can't gig four nights a week with it.

    #13 people play in clubs with acoustic guitars all the time.

    #14 ok, i suppose you could get an acoustic if you want to play folk music. i play rock and blues so that wouldn't work for me.

    #15 i'm running a les paul into a marshall plexi. i have no problems at all. tone monsters. i have a $100 acoustic but it sounds bad so i never play it.

    #16 isn't blues folk music too?

    #17 well... blues started as folk music.

    #18 maybe you should practice playing the blues on acoustic. it might help your electric playing.

    #19 thanks for the tip. i'm gigging four night a week. i don't have time to practice anymore.

    #20 so a priest, a rabbi and a penguin walk into a bar...

    #21 ^^handle ban requested^^

    sorry this is so off-topic. i don't know why i felt compelled to post it. :rolleyes:
     
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