complicated world of 10" speakers

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by SoPro, Oct 12, 2019 at 8:47 PM.

  1. SoPro

    SoPro TDPRI Member

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    Please forgive if I've duplicated this thread here or elsewhere on the web. I thought I succesfully posted here and then my computer froze. I don't see it, so trying again after reboot.

    I have a '65 Vox (Thomas Organ) Berkeley V8. For those unfamiliar with it, it's basically an AC15, but with reverb. For decades I've used it with a 2x12 cabinet w/ Vox/Oxford Gold Bulldog alnicos (from a Vox Buckingham) and loved the chime-y overdrive.

    Over the last few years, I've collected enough Berkeley bits (heads, cabinets, trolleys, covers and footswitches) to create one damn gorgeous mid-60s shiny trapezoid-headed beauty. The only thing(s) I'm missing are the correct Vox/Celestion(UK) 7442 speakers. I have a pair 7424s from a solid state Berkeley, but they present 4ohms to the head, instead of 8 so I can’t use them.

    I’ve also got a pair of Celestion G10 60Watt Vintage 10’s that came in one of the “parts amps” as well as a pair of NOS (from Thomas factory liquidation, I’m told) 10” Vox/Oxford Gold Bulldog alnicos as would have come with some Vox Pacemakers.

    A lotta nice 10s, but all 8ohms and useless to me for that amp/cab. So...

    • Should I just keep using my 212 cab to play through and leave the 7424s in the Berk cab for eventual selling (even though they are wrong models)?
    • Or should I post everywhere online, looking to trade for correct 7442s? (Damn hard to find Vox versions!)
    • Or are any of what I have so great that I should get an impedance matching gizmo (e.g. Weber Z-Matcher) and see why some folks like 10s better than 12s?
    And just to overstay my welcome a few moments longer- my studio bass amp is an early 70s silverface Bassman 10, w/ 4 original 10" Oxford 32ohm spks. I want to keep using it for bass, but rumor has it that it makes a decent guitar amp, especially for pedals. Would some combo of my “wrong” Vox speakers be right for goosing the bassman for dual-uses? Maybe I'm better off mixing pair of G10Vs with 7424s (series-parallel) in the Bassman 10 and selling the 32ohm oxfords? (do people want 32 ohm spks)?

    It's a complex world!
    Thanks in advance.
    Randy
     
  2. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    Weber Silver Bells are based on the old Celestion / Vox Bulldogs. Weber will custom build 'em in a variety of configurations.

    Or use a pair of Celestion Golds. They're similar to old Bulldogs except with higher power handling.
     
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  3. SoPro

    SoPro TDPRI Member

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    Thank you for those suggestions.

    I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. I'm not really looking for other speakers that replicate what I have. I have too many already! (although I don't even know how the 3 pairs of 10s I have might sound with my Berkeley, because of the impedance mismatch.)

    For playing, I am very content with the 212 cab I'm using. But for collectability, I'd like to find the correct ones so it will be 100% historically accurate.

    Assuming I strike out here and elsewhere in finding the right 7442s, I'm looking for suggestions what to do with what I've got. Use 'em in the bassman? Ditch 'em? Try 'em w/ the Berk plus z-match?...

    Thanks again
     
  4. kbold

    kbold Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    Sshhh - this is supposed to be secret
     
  5. SoPro

    SoPro TDPRI Member

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    Sorry. Rumor also has it that they're boat anchors with tubes.
    (Now no one will suspect)

    Sounds like you have or had one. Do/did you use the stock 32ohm oxford "anchor transducers"? I think they're fine for bass with a DI. And adequate but not special for guitar. If you tried others, did they work for bass too?

    Randy
     
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  6. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    SoPro, fwiw, despite having a long tail pair phase inverter and cathode biased EL-84’s, that Berkeley is not an AC-15 when one looks at the preamp. The preamp is closer to a BF Fender. Kudos on that labor of love there. I wish I had the speakers you need....but I have never seen a pair of those.
    Regarding the Bassman 10, it is a clean machine as stock....only two gain stages per channel. One could re-voice one channel for versatility. Speakers??! I like the Eminence ALK. I personally have never been interested enough in these amps due to their weight, but I had a young player that had to have one that I had. He played ‘Texas punk surf’...his description....and referred the Bassman 10 over the Music Man 410HD130 he traded to me. I wanted the three EVI Force speakers he had in the MM. great trade for both, I suppose.
     
  7. jrblue

    jrblue Tele-Afflicted

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    Well, playing through 2 12s is nothing whatsoever like running it through 10s, so I would be a whole lot less fussy about exactly what 10s you use and just try some near equivalents to the OEMs and see how you like it. Some of us prefer 10s, by far, for this type of amp (tighter but still excellent bass; push way less air, etc.) so your current setup is way off from that. Personally, I'd at least get in the ballpark.
     
  8. SoPro

    SoPro TDPRI Member

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    Wally,
    Thanks for the correction and details. I guess the BF preamp was how they added reverb. BF pre into an AC15 power section seems like best of both worlds. I count myself lucky.

    As far as modding the bassman10, I'm content to leave electronics alone, since I use it primarily for bass & I'm at the point in life where I'd rather spend time playing than soldering. Just wondering if any of my 10s could improve it (bass, guitar., or both.) Swapping speakers isn't that challenging, so I know I should just experiment. But 3 pairs, which prob sound different depending the way I order them in series/parallel, will take enough time that I'd love to know if it's even worth the trouble. If they all are lousy for bass, I wouldn't bother.

    jrblue,
    I'll take your comments on preferring 10s over 12s to heart. Maybe I should get a z-matcher and see if any of my 3 pairs work magic w/ the Berkeley.

    Does anyone know if 7424s sound identical to 7442s? From what I can tell, the only difference is 8 vs 16 ohms. Given the highly prized (and highly priced) status of 7442s, especially w/ Pulsonic N1B4 cones (mine are labelled N1B4LD & N1B4LF) maybe I already own a pair of holy grails!

    Thanks all.
     
  9. avspecialist

    avspecialist TDPRI Member

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    3F23EFE1-8327-435F-9DE7-0CF7B63A9200.jpeg The only info I can offer, is I bought a Bassman 10 with 4 8 ohm mojotone vintage speakers in it. It was ok, but sounded fairly anemic in my opinion. After retubing it and going through the amp I got it to sound a lot better, but not great. About a year later, it developed an output transformer issue and took out a couple pairs of 6L6GC, 1 pair was my real Winged C’s. So I decided to order a Heyborer super reverb output transformer and rewire it as a Super Reverb (with no reverb) also changed the Blue Blob caps with Jupiter caps. I then made a new single 12 cabinet for it. It sounds sort of a Super Reverb/Deluxe. It’s lower gain so it takes pedals really well. I ended up with a Celestion Creamback 65 in it. Pretty decent, but not quite right. Recently I decided to put in a ppi master volume in it, since it had a master volume knob in it, to give me other flavors of clean and crunch. I think I am going to now try a Weber Chicago or California I have in stock. It’s a great platform for learning how to mod amplifiers, since the parts count is minimal. I just ordered new grill cloth. The grill cloth in the photo has this awful missweave in it, I’m going to change it to aged grill cloth with the thin blue line.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019 at 8:08 PM
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