'cocked wah tone' from just one single coil...?

[schotter611]

Building a long scale mustang style guitar from leftover parts. Now due to some bridge restrictions the bridge PU has moved a little away from the bridge. It does sound very 'cocked wah-y', think Knopfler, on its own. Kinda nice for certain things but not what I was going for. And the effect is quite dramatic. It happens with the neck PU on its own and there is no volume drop so I am guessing this is not due to polarity /an out-of-phase issue. Can moving the bridge PU by ca 3/4 inch in have such a dramatic tonal effect? Or could this be due to the specific spec of the Mustang pickups (65 MIJ)? I am wondering if going for a Humbucker will change much.

 

[mandoloony]

A single pickup cannot be out of phase with itself, and two pickups out of phase sound very different from a cocked wah.

It could just be the sound of that pickup in that position. Or it could be a problem the wiring and it's rolling off some of the treble without you realizing it. I'd try re-wiring that pickup directly to the jack and see what happens.

 

[bebopbrain]

Can moving the bridge PU by ca 3/4 inch in have such a dramatic tonal effect?

Yes.

 

[Alamo]

It's quite likely you hit a node of the vibrating string (valley, least output) opposed to anti-node (peak of string vibration)

positioning of neck pickup on guitars

Is there a particular reason why neck pickups on guitars are often placed exactly where an open string harmonic is found ? Years ago I suffered from 'lost harmonics' till I realised that the one di...

music.stackexchange.com

 

[schotter611]

...I'd try re-wiring that pickup directly to the jack and see what happens.

will do this first; a was suspecting something along this line...

It's quite likely you hit a node of the vibrating string (valley, least output) opposed to anti-node (peak of string vibration)

I read about this. I could imagine a Humbucker having less of that effect due to the 'split' positions of the two coils, let's see.

Yes.

...well I am learning...

 

[bebopbrain]

I didn't mean to be flippant. Pickup position makes a difference. I have a 1975 EB-0 bass after Gibson moved the pickup away from the neck to reduce the famous muddiness. Big improvement.

 

[Alamo]

Years ago, I built this contraption consisting of a Harmonica holder to find a sweet spot for the pickup....moving it, while listening.

 

[Boreas]

What were the "bridge restrictions"? Could the bridge installation be causing a wonky sound? Good, abrupt break angle? Does it sound good acoustically?

 

[NoTeleBob]

A bad solder joint can have high capacitance and cause this.

If the pickup is too high it could sound a bit like this.

 

[MidwestLuthier]

I've noticed that pickups moving across the harmonic spectrum of the strings does influence the sound quite a bit. Before making any recommendations, could you provide a picture of the wiring?

Also, do you have a swimming pool route in the body?

 

[schotter611]

I didn't mean to be flippant...

no worries.

 

[schotter611]

What were the "bridge restrictions"? Could the bridge installation be causing a wonky sound? Good, abrupt break angle? Does it sound good acoustically?

Thanks but very unlikely. I am using a Danelectro bridge /stoptail that actually is quite straight forward. For cosmetic reasons it will be sitting on the baseplate of the original mustang trem plate (not visible here) and I am hoping to not having to alter its shape. Long story short the pickup sits where it used to be in the original shortscale version, just with the bridge moved back to accommodate for the longer scale. Unplugged it actually sounds really good and the guitar plays really well.

 

[Boreas]

Thanks but very unlikely. I am using a Danelectro bridge /stoptail that actually is quite straight forward. For cosmetic reasons it will be sitting on the baseplate of the original mustang trem plate (not visible here) and I am hoping to not having to alter its shape. Long story short the pickup sits where it used to be in the original shortscale version, just with the bridge moved back to accommodate for the longer scale. Unplugged it actually sounds really good and the guitar plays really well. View attachment 1117478

If it sounds good acoustically you should be fine. Although it could be the camera angle, the break angles do look shallow to these old eyes.

 

[schotter611]

I've noticed that pickups moving across the harmonic spectrum of the strings does influence the sound quite a bit. Before making any recommendations, could you provide a picture of the wiring?

Also, do you have a swimming pool route in the body?

Thanks! But at the moment I am gathering all info/possibilities and will only take it apart when I find enough time. I have soldered it to use the one three way switch as traditional PU selector and the other as series/parallel. Chances are there could be a bad solder point or some ground issue.

I will most likely create a larger cavity and -before I get flamed for this- the body will be an aftermarket contured ash Mustang body, not the original 65 reissue.... So I am kinda converting my old reissue to where it used to be and making a second one from parts lying around...the neck PU actually sounds really legit with the longer scale; I am actually tempted to go all Music Master...

 

[MidwestLuthier]

Thanks! But at the moment I am gathering all info/possibilities and will only take it apart when I find enough time. I have soldered it to use the one three way switch as traditional PU selector and the other as series/parallel. Chances are there could be a bad solder point or some ground issue.

I will most likely create a larger cavity and -before I get flamed for this- the body will be an aftermarket contured ash Mustang body, not the original 65 reissue.... So I am kinda converting my old reissue to where it used to be and making a second one from parts lying around...the neck PU actually sounds really legit with the longer scale; I am actually tempted to go all Music Master...

I am actually betting that its the pickups position in the node of the string, I just wanted to make sure all the bases were covered. Doing the straight to output jack test should confirm or deny this easily.

If the quack remains, a humbucker will probably solve this. I've yet to find a quacky humbucker despite my best efforts lol

 

[schotter611]

Thanks, Luthier. It's definitively the position. Simplest way I could find out was to switch PUs (the neck PU sounded not quacky at all at the neck) and to realize the positioning just makes it sound that way. So the options are: digging a hole in a different spot (changing pickguard layout etc...pita) or trying a Humbucker. What do you guys think...would the differently positioned magnets/rails of a classic Humbucker dissipate the field enough to get over the node thingy more than a single coil sized bucker? Of course, I am planning a wider cavity anyway but it would be nice to finish my r&d on the body I am using right now (which should stay intact).

 

[Newbcaster]

So....sometimes I think guitars like this should be left alone. Why try and figger out what's wrong when nothing is broken?

The knopfler sound is one of the hardest to come by. I would love to hear it. Could you post a sound clip?

A mustang style pickup sounding like a p90 with studio phasing...on accident mind you... doesn't get any better than that.

Some people try real real hard to do on purpose what you have achieved serendipitously.

I say leave it alone and play!!

 

[schotter611]

Haha! Yeah that's one way to look at it...at the moment the guitar is more or less in pieces but I will try a HB sized TV Classic in it (lying around here) which 'unfortunately' is probably as quacky as a Humbucker can get...will report back.

 

[schotter611]

Well, that's her for now (no Tele-Style, though...). The neck TV Jones sounds different than the single coil, more muted in the treble but still with a noticeable upper mid honk; like something gets cancelled (ya know, even inside my guitar..:!). I rewired parts that I found looked dodgy and swapped neck / bridge PUs so this is definitively happening due to positioning. I will probably go back to single coil, play it for a while and try to embrace my inner Knopfler. Eventually, I can see myself digging more cavity, making a custom pickguard and moving the bridge PU where it belongs. After all, there was probably a reason for Leo to place those pickups where they are...anyhow, fun project, started with some parts lying around and the desire for a power strat that doesn't look like one....thanks for the input!