Cloud computer users

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by uriah1, Sep 29, 2015.

  1. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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    Any cloud computer data systems users.

    What I dont get, if the cloud, is basically a remote server on a remote
    desert island, and you have your companies Payroll, HR, and business
    transactions tied up there....what about connection errors, issues.

    You cant walk down the hall and tell them to do this, or that,
    and if your have a internet connection error., oops, no one gets paid.

    Also, those are vanilla packages, so what about special functions or
    reporting you may require...

    Two steps ahead (no capital investment), but, five steps back???

    thoughts..
     
  2. J-man

    J-man Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I would imagine such sensitive things as payroll are handled in-house, not using a cloud system. Despite what you may have heard, Cloud computing is not replacing locally stored data. It's supplementing it.
     
  3. Ironwolf

    Ironwolf Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

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    What J-Man said.

    In certain circumstances you can run a program in a cloud based virtual machine, but no one in their right mind would run mission critical applications there. If some CEO/CFO wanted to do so as a cost savings, his CIO should and hopefully would put an immediate kibosh to the plan or resign in order to not be blamed for it. Hard to find a new position if your last company failed due to stupid IT decisions. I work with cloud systems every day and I don't trust them even for mission critical storage.
     
  4. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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    hmm..and tks
     
  5. fendrguitplayr

    fendrguitplayr Doctor of Teleocity

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  6. gpasq

    gpasq Friend of Leo's

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    That's just not the case. Most (nearly all) internet companies (Netflix, Instagram, Reddit, Expedia, Adobe, Pinterest, Heroku, etc.) run nearly all of their business in "the cloud" on Amazon Web Services, MS Azure or other similar services. Many other businesses, including banks, pharmaceutical companies, auto manufacturers, supermarkets, airlines, etc., you name it; run substantial parts of their business the same way.

    A business cannot afford to maintain data centers today, the upkeep is too expensive. With compute power changing nearly monthly, it's economically infeasible.

    In addition, an enormous number of companies outsource their payroll, HR, insurance, health, and retirement plans. Is that "in the cloud"? Eh, what's the difference?

    And it's not as if you just throw your data into "the cloud" and it disappears... it's backed up, just as it would be in any home grown data center.

    Though "the cloud" is relatively recent (last 25 years or so), not relying on it for large parts of your business is like not relying on electricity. It's got occasional issues, but it's mostly "just there".
     
  7. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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    Deduplication and hyperconvergance...those are new..boy I miss
    the system36 and as400 now..lol

    ..
     
  8. Freejack

    Freejack Friend of Leo's

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    Hahahahahaha.

    I work in 911 Emergency Services. Because we are system custodians and responsible for the operation of our infrastructure, we have a process for spinning up new servers. This ensures disaster recovery, backups, monitoring, restoration of services, and redundancy.

    We're taking too long to build servers according to the business folks. Note that it takes me a couple of hours total to build one from a virtual gold image template I created and install the necessary components; backup, monitoring, scripts, accounts, etc and turn it over to the app guys to install the product. What takes too long is having to go back to Engineering to try and figure out what orifice they pulled the specs from and then reengineer it to actually work in production. That's assuming I can chase down the Engineer. That can take a couple of weeks.

    So the business folks have already started moving to the AWS cloud.

    Business: "You guys will support the AWS servers."

    Ops: "We didn't build them, we don't support them."

    If we are responsible for them, we'll still have to go through our normal process above to get our support infrastructure in place and it'll still take about as long to get it up and ready as it does for our internal virtual environment.

    I will note from a personal perspective, my physical server colocated in a Florida data center with hardware support still costs me about $1,000 less over 3 years than a similarly set up AWS virtual server. On the plus side, when I first spec'd it out a couple of years back, it was double the cost of my physical server. So the costs are going down.

    Carl
     
  9. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I just can't risk all the stuff I've saved here on the Bad Dog to a remote server off in the clouds somewhere, I keep it right here at home. Toto backs up to it every day.
     
  10. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    Keep in mind that "cloud" can mean private or hybrid cloud too.

    The EMC and VMware technology I use just looks like a server to my users but can be copies of same server. Parts of new Microsoft products we're deploying mirror the data under our roofs and theirs.

    I report to people who tried to take accounting and all of HR to the cloud and that failed miserably. The replacement for those doomed attempts will be private and hybrid cloud. Take note: The two "cloud" companies that failed do get credit for the power of sending sales staff who were cute college athlete stars.

    Another way to use "cloud" is you have total control of the data. I back up data to Amazon's cloud using software that's "TNO" (trust no one). It's not data I need instantly.

    I also use premium products or advanced configurations to insure data availability. I have T1 and fiber connections that are the first class fliers within the phone companies. If some Internet connections I have go down they fail over to a backup line that's a different type and on a different network.
     
  11. gpasq

    gpasq Friend of Leo's

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    I can scale my services up to handle multiple servers behind a load balancer in moments. Literally under 3 minutes. I can physically locate my servers close to you, in numerous parts of the world, again in moments. I can switch my servers from small and low cost to enormous, also in moments.

    Not every business has those needs. But for those that do, I'll take the experience of numerous multi billion dollar businesses over that of the "didn't build it, won't support it" (aka the "get off my lawn") crowd.
     
  12. paulmarr

    paulmarr Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    We still run an AS400 and it lives in the cloud too!

    Cost benefits vs privacy? Your privacy is long gone and was sold out years ago. Cash is king and having a data centre in the cloud is "bigger, better, faster, cheaper" than most companies can provide in house. Our company went from an annual IT budget of $25 million to less than $9 million in 5 years by cloud data centre and outsourcing of network management. Not something business doubts anymore. We have redundancy in multiple clouds in case of service issues.
     
  13. raito

    raito Poster Extraordinaire

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    A few weeks ago, the Friday lunch presentation was on how to harden applications in the cloud against malicious guest OSs.

    Remote computing resources aren't really all that new. The marketing is.
     
  14. Guitarteach

    Guitarteach Poster Extraordinaire

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    This is us for the products we are making now and in the future. Using AWS gives us incredible business agility.
     
  15. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    That all makes sense but "hardening in the cloud" is really mixing metaphors.
     
  16. Freejack

    Freejack Friend of Leo's

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    In order for us to provide a supported environment, something I can respond to in case the server crashes, something I can restore data to in the event the server is gone for whatever reason, and a way to management users centrally, then I need to have my tools on the system.

    We have management requirements to manage changes to the system so per policy, development and engineering aren't allowed access at more than a user level. This means someone in platforms has to provision the system and someone in apps has to follow Dev/Eng instructions to install and manage the application.

    If Ops could get installation instructions (server setup and app installation) that worked the first time (a logical assumption since the instructions are supposed to be used in QA before going to Ops). If we can get networking to crap out a functioning IP address in less than a month. If we can get the business folks to untie the purse strings so we can pay for the necessary tools for the virtual machine.

    The act of generating a server to pass on to the app groups is pretty quick. Resizing and moving them around is also reasonably quick. But getting good instructions, accurate networking, security scans, and various agent configurations completed will take a week or two to get a product up and functioning.

    Heck, I'd like to use a configuration management tool like puppet but the business side of the house one offs everything. With development, engineering, and QA not using the same environment as Ops, it adds even more complexity.

    Dev: "I've created this new tool to be used by the NOC on Linux Mint, here's the deployment information."

    Ops: "You do know our monitoring and backup tools don't work on Mint and Ops uses Red Hat for all servers."

    Dev: "Well, how about I install it on an AWS server and you support that?"

    Ops: "Again, monitoring and backup tools don't work on Mint. This means we have to hack together some tools in order to adequately manage this server. Why didn't you use the Red Hat Gold Image we have available?"

    Dev: "I don't like Red Hat and my manager doesn't care as long as the app works when I'm done."

    Ops: "I'm sorry, you need to redo the tool on a supported platform."

    Dev: "We have to get this out right now, it's mucho important!"

    Management: "Support it, we'll get the next version on Red Hat."

    Ops: "$@#@&##$@"

    Management: "Why didn't you know this server was down?"

    Ops: :rolleyes: "We told you the tools we have in place don't work on Mint."

    Management: "Well... Fix it!"

    Ops: :rolleyes:


    It's nice when you have a standardized environment from A to Z but for now, I'm rather stuck with this hodge podge of gear as we try to transition into a larger company. Heck, I have old Dell 1650's running Red Hat 2.1. We can't get the business folks to cut loose the purse strings to let us replace the gear so we have to keep it running.

    So no. I'm not going to support a system I didn't build.

    Carl
     
  17. BryMelvin

    BryMelvin Friend of Leo's

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    ^^^this

    In My business everything I do on my computers is backed up in the cloud at every save.

    I could actually work from any computer save it to the cloud and it would show up in my work computer later.

    Cloud is redundancy not primary.
     
  18. gpasq

    gpasq Friend of Leo's

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    That's a misunderstanding on your part. You can do all of those things on cloud systems. The only difference is that you can't fondle the hardware.

    You can even build your environment on a linux system of your choice, package it in a docker container, and distribute it to virtual hosts so you have a consistent environment.

    The QA issues aren't cloud issues.
     
  19. greytop

    greytop Tele-Holic

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    This sums it up. good post
     
  20. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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    You are liable for data breaches..however, for your cloud based server app in wankovia
    and your data storage in kitchikan...

    Trust is the major word...here..
     
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