Closest Modern Speaker to Pre-Rolla G12M-75 Greenbacks?

[Cysquatch]

I'm really mostly familiar with Celestion, which I know is only a small slice of the speaker universe, but I'm hunting for the classic early Greenback sound. The modern Greenies, even well-broken in have a more sizzly aspect to them than I'm hunting for, so looking for advice on getting that classic woody Greeny tone or close to it with something relatively off-the-shelf and/or used available and that's not a gorillion dollars a pop. I've heard some Scumback clips I've liked, but wouldn't mind paying less than that $190 per cone and would love some real-world experience on it.

 

[KC]

Avatar / Fane M65 is in the Greenback family, relatively inexpensive, I have one in a 1x12 open-back cab and it sounds great with a variety of amp heads. No idea if it will solve the problem you have set for yourself, though.

 

[Cysquatch]

Avatar / Fane M65 is in the Greenback family, relatively inexpensive, I have one in a 1x12 open-back cab and it sounds great with a variety of amp heads. No idea if it will solve the problem you have set for yourself, though.

I'll check them out man, any info is good info.

 

[northernguitar]

Folks seem to love WGS speakers and they have copies of everything Celestion. The prices are fantastic.

 

[ReverendRevolver]

Shoot weber an email. Ask if they can make you a ceramic grey wolf with the properties you describe.

They're the best at making a new speaker that sounds like a vintage Jensen, I'd imagine it's possible for them to take a stable at a celestion.
Or maybe they gave already and can give feedback on it.

 

[Wally]

The Eminence GB128 is a great speaker, imho. The top end is one thing I like about it. The top end is smooth rather than harsh and sizzling. Bargain, imho.

 

[dan40]

The WGS Invader is a 50 watt speaker that many folks say has the Pre-Rola Greenback sound. Another speaker that people have been mentioning lately is the Mojotone Watchtower. There have been several glowing reviews lately on how close this sounds to the originals.

Mojotone Watchtower 12" 25W Speaker by Celestion 8 OHM

DetailsWho wouldn't want to "experience" pristine Greenback tone that doesn't break the bank? Introducing the Mojotone Watchtower 12" Speakers, delivering tone as bold as love. Our Watchtower 12" Speaker delivers an incredible 25 watts of fat, creamy tone.These speakers are only available for a...

www.mojotone.com

 

[Swirling Snow]

I've used WGS in my designs and I like them a lot. Nice people to deal with.

But for what you're looking for, no one has gone deeper down the rabbit hole than Jim. Call Scumback.

Bad name, great speaker.

 

[telemnemonics]

There is no such thing as a "Pre Rola G12M75 Greenback"

Pre Rola is all paper VC former low wattage and really quite different from anything Kapton VC former with higher power handling.

Then if wanting pre rola GB tone, you need to choose which of the three quite different GBs you mean: G12m20, G12m25, or G12h30.
The G12m20 was well reproduced and sold with a stripey sticker as the EVH speaker, which is not super popular so may come up at screaming deals.

I hear those three GBs as sounding very different from each other.
But on the net they get lumped together since few have had all three in the same room at the same time and run an old Marshall through them all.

 

[Cysquatch]

The WGS Invader is a 50 watt speaker that many folks say has the Pre-Rola Greenback sound. Another speaker that people have been mentioning lately is the Mojotone Watchtower. There have been several glowing reviews lately on how close this sounds to the originals.

Mojotone Watchtower 12" 25W Speaker by Celestion 8 OHM

DetailsWho wouldn't want to "experience" pristine Greenback tone that doesn't break the bank? Introducing the Mojotone Watchtower 12" Speakers, delivering tone as bold as love. Our Watchtower 12" Speaker delivers an incredible 25 watts of fat, creamy tone.These speakers are only available for a...

www.mojotone.com

This is a very interesting option and a reasonable price. I'll look deeper into these.

There is no such thing as a "Pre Rola G12M75 Greenback"

Pre Rola is all paper VC former low wattage and really quite different from anything Kapton VC former with higher power handling.

Then if wanting pre rola GB tone, you need to choose which of the three quite different GBs you mean: G12m20, G12m25, or G12h30.
The G12m20 was well reproduced and sold with a stripey sticker as the EVH speaker, which is not super popular so may come up at screaming deals.

I hear those three GBs as sounding very different from each other.
But on the net they get lumped together since few have had all three in the same room at the same time and run an old Marshall through them all.

Sorry, I didn't really lay that out properly. Meant the G12M25 with the 75hz cone. But, this is all very useful info, I appreciate it.

 

[telemnemonics]

This is a very interesting option and a reasonable price. I'll look deeper into these.

Sorry, I didn't really lay that out properly. Meant the G12M25 with the 75hz cone. But, this is all very useful info, I appreciate it.

Oh right OK 75 hz is on the label too, or in some cases 55hz.

I often wonder how close all the claimed GB speakers are in construction and sound.
When Metro Amps had a busy forum there was tons of debate and testing to try to find the perfect clones.
Seems the debate continues!
And new repro speakers keep coming out.
Feels like fewer and fewer of us can bring up a point of reference though to compare or judge etc.
I kind of stopped caring as the range of great spaeakers kind of eclipsed the best of what was used making Classic Rock.
I do still have some nice vintage speakers though as well as Celestion remakes etc.

True enough that the Emi GB128 is fine and may do the due, depending on what you expect and need to hear.
I tend to plug any amp into numerous speakers and often it is just some recent Emi that sounds best to me.
The Celestion Classic Lead 80 is nice IMO, and I like Celestion Golds or Red Fangs a lot. I think I have a blue in my late night amp now, fantastic speaker if using a small enough amp.

 

[Cysquatch]

Folks seem to love WGS speakers and they have copies of everything Celestion. The prices are fantastic.

I've got some WGS Vet30s with Celestion V30s in a 4x12 right now and they're honestly far preferential to the Celestion. I definitely make a point to mic one of those when I need to.

That said, the V30 sizzle has started to wear on me and I've found a lot of great tones I reference often came off early Greenies, thus this hunt for a similar speaker. Knowing me, might turn into a whole cab swap...

 

[slider313]

Scumback Speaker Model M75-PVC

www.scumbackspeakers.com

 

[Back at it]

Scumbacks….

 

[TheCheapGuitarist]

The Peavey Sheffield 1200's were designed to sound like EVH'S broken-in Greenbacks. U.S. made and inexpensive.

 

[Digger73]

I have a Austin Speaker Works Crossroads speaker in my Vox AC15HW. It has been in there for several months. I actually had ASW re-tone the stock G12M with one of their kits. It is a 70W rendition of a Greenie. ASW uses a lightweight cone as I understand it and it has been a splendid speaker for this application. I have had several speakers through this amp. I keep a Scumnico PCV in a cab and plug it into the external jack and it also gives the amp a different but great sound. Not really a Greenie replica though.

Another speaker that is a real sleeper in the Guytron Big Tone 55W. I have two in a cab and hooked up to a Marshall head, but I have hooked it up to the Vox for fantastic results. It is said that the speaker takes the best of the G12H30 and the Blue Alnico and packages it up….I will always have a Big Tone in my line up

 

[NiceTele]

I think the closest you will get to how they made old Celestion Greenbacks is to try the Lorantz Greenback speakers made in Melbourne. They are great sounding speakers, but not sure if you can get them outside of Australia.

 

[arlum]

There is no such thing as a "Pre Rola G12M75 Greenback"

Pre Rola is all paper VC former low wattage and really quite different from anything Kapton VC former with higher power handling.

Then if wanting pre rola GB tone, you need to choose which of the three quite different GBs you mean: G12m20, G12m25, or G12h30.
The G12m20 was well reproduced and sold with a stripey sticker as the EVH speaker, which is not super popular so may come up at screaming deals.

I hear those three GBs as sounding very different from each other.
But on the net they get lumped together since few have had all three in the same room at the same time and run an old Marshall through them all.

Oh right OK 75 hz is on the label too, or in some cases 55hz.

I often wonder how close all the claimed GB speakers are in construction and sound.
When Metro Amps had a busy forum there was tons of debate and testing to try to find the perfect clones.
Seems the debate continues!
And new repro speakers keep coming out.
Feels like fewer and fewer of us can bring up a point of reference though to compare or judge etc.
I kind of stopped caring as the range of great spaeakers kind of eclipsed the best of what was used making Classic Rock.
I do still have some nice vintage speakers though as well as Celestion remakes etc.

True enough that the Emi GB128 is fine and may do the due, depending on what you expect and need to hear.
I tend to plug any amp into numerous speakers and often it is just some recent Emi that sounds best to me.
The Celestion Classic Lead 80 is nice IMO, and I like Celestion Golds or Red Fangs a lot. I think I have a blue in my late night amp now, fantastic speaker if using a small enough amp.

Because I've owned two and have played through all three of the speakers telemnermonics, (how did you come up with that name?), mentioned I just thought I'd give my opinion on them.


The closet of the three to what most players think of when they're talking about a Greenback, (in modern day terms), is the 25 watter and it's also my least favorite. It's basically all about crunch. It handles neither cleans nor smooth leads very well. For whatever reason when the '60s ended this became the mold for most future Greenbacks.
The G12H30 isn't really a Greenback at all in tone. Both the 55 and 75 hz handle high gain far better than the 25 watt greenback and also produce wonderful clean tones. Their main downside is they can't produce that woody crunchy sound of the afore mentioned 25 watt Greenbacks.
The 20 watt Greenback, (also sold as the EVH), is easily the best among these three vintage voiced speakers with one single downside. They can produce both excellent crunch and clean tones. Their lead tones are pretty much equal overall to the G12H30 versions with the 20 Watt Greenback having a little more high end than the G12H30 75hz version, more string / note definition as well as being able to cut through the mix better than the G12H30. That said .... they aren't as smooth as the G12H30 when using higher gain and they've always had a reputation for blowing out. I've known of a pair of the 20 watt Greenbacks to blow out when used with a 36 watt Vox style head. The same head that two 15 watt Alnico Blues handled quite well blew out a pair of the 20 watters. I know. Eddie used four in a 4 X 12 Cabinet but his amps were always set up to deliver less output that their power rating through some king of reduced voltage thing and even Eddie was known to keep spare cabs on hand because he was well aware of this flaw. That said .... they were still his favorites and I can understand why. My personal favorites were and are the G12H30s but that's solely because my style requires far less definition and cut through than Eddie's. My tone more closely resembles David Gilmour or Santana so that super smooth high gain tone of the G12H30 works better for me.

If your looking for the finest Celestion lead tones from the '60s that also handled '70s and '80s Hard Rock the best, for most players, that would be the 20 Watt Greenback, (even though not my personal choice). It definitely ranks as #1. It can scream and crunch and speak cleanly. Just don't try to push it's rated wattage. It's not like an Alnico Blue that sounds best when pushed to or passed it's max rating. You can't really trust the 20 watt Greenback to handle it's rated wattage. To me a 4 X12 cab sporting four 20 watt Greenbacks would sound perfect with a 50 watt Plexi or 60 watt Fender Concert head.

If you want smooth like Gilmour or Santana you'll need either the Celestion G12H30 or, even better, Fane Ascension series speakers.

The 25 watt Greenback, in my opinion, was Celestions attempt to build a more robust version of the 20 watt Greenback that, IMO, gave up too much of the 20 watters magic to gain better power handling. I guess not blowing up must have trumped tone because sales of the 25 watt version were such that they became the Greenback standard for long and long. Todays Greenback is still based on this 25 watt model yet most tonal references applied to the "sound of the Greenback" are referencing the 20 watt version. Go figure. Celestion's not going broke. I would be a poor businessman.

 

[telemnemonics]

Because I've owned two and have played through all three of the speakers telemnermonics, (how did you come up with that name?), mentioned I just thought I'd give my opinion on them.


The closet of the three to what most players think of when they're talking about a Greenback, (in modern day terms), is the 25 watter and it's also my least favorite. It's basically all about crunch. It handles neither cleans nor smooth leads very well. For whatever reason when the '60s ended this became the mold for most future Greenbacks.
The G12H30 isn't really a Greenback at all in tone. Both the 55 and 75 hz handle high gain far better than the 25 watt greenback and also produce wonderful clean tones. Their main downside is they can't produce that woody crunchy sound of the afore mentioned 25 watt Greenbacks.
The 20 watt Greenback, (also sold as the EVH), is easily the best among these three vintage voiced speakers with one single downside. They can produce both excellent crunch and clean tones. Their lead tones are pretty much equal overall to the G12H30 versions with the 20 Watt Greenback having a little more high end than the G12H30 75hz version, more string / note definition as well as being able to cut through the mix better than the G12H30. That said .... they aren't as smooth as the G12H30 when using higher gain and they've always had a reputation for blowing out. I've known of a pair of the 20 watt Greenbacks to blow out when used with a 36 watt Vox style head. The same head that two 15 watt Alnico Blues handled quite well blew out a pair of the 20 watters. I know. Eddie used four in a 4 X 12 Cabinet but his amps were always set up to deliver less output that their power rating through some king of reduced voltage thing and even Eddie was known to keep spare cabs on hand because he was well aware of this flaw. That said .... they were still his favorites and I can understand why. My personal favorites were and are the G12H30s but that's solely because my style requires far less definition and cut through than Eddie's. My tone more closely resembles David Gilmour or Santana so that super smooth high gain tone of the G12H30 works better for me.

If your looking for the finest Celestion lead tones from the '60s that also handled '70s and '80s Hard Rock the best, for most players, that would be the 20 Watt Greenback, (even though not my personal choice). It definitely ranks as #1. It can scream and crunch and speak cleanly. Just don't try to push it's rated wattage. It's not like an Alnico Blue that sounds best when pushed to or passed it's max rating. You can't really trust the 20 watt Greenback to handle it's rated wattage. To me a 4 X12 cab sporting four 20 watt Greenbacks would sound perfect with a 50 watt Plexi or 60 watt Fender Concert head.

If you want smooth like Gilmour or Santana you'll need either the Celestion G12H30 or, even better, Fane Ascension series speakers.

The 25 watt Greenback, in my opinion, was Celestions attempt to build a more robust version of the 20 watt Greenback that, IMO, gave up too much of the 20 watters magic to gain better power handling. I guess not blowing up must have trumped tone because sales of the 25 watt version were such that they became the Greenback standard for long and long. Todays Greenback is still based on this 25 watt model yet most tonal references applied to the "sound of the Greenback" are referencing the 20 watt version. Go figure. Celestion's not going broke. I would be a poor businessman.

Agreed overall pretty much, and I also am really not a fan of the 25 but like the 20 and 30.
Of course also we can find the 102 03 cone or the 1777 cone in any of those models, which makes some additional difference.
Plus some of us may have only experienced either later (mid to late 1970s) kapton versions or less great RI versions which seem to vary over production.

My sound needs drifted away from what those speakers are best at, so they are in the back of my spice ranck these days...

 

[Dacious]

The Emi Redcoat CV75 series are their take on the Greenback and G12T75 which is Celestion's attempt at a high wattage Greenback.

The Emi CV75 is a great take alternative. I had two Marshall 4210s at the same time - one had an old G12T75 which was great but big and clean, and one a CV75. The 75 had a satisfying woody thunk comparing nicely to the UK Luton Greenback in the Mini Jubilee I had at the time. It handled big gain and boost much better.