clash/ strummer questions

[BrooklynSkinheadOi!]

First off let me say what a geat source of inf othis board is:

a little intro:

My name is harry, and i am a singer/guitarist in a punk rock band.
Not exactly rich, I have always been on the lower end of equipment,
but now...finally..... i have managed toed to scrape 900 bucks together, to buy the guitar i have wanted an american tele like my idol and personal fave joe strummer.

Now after perusing many posts, and searching the net, I find that the tele joe played was a 71 american tele. Now maybe someone one here can help me on a few questions.

anyone know what string gauge joe used in his clash days?

I have seen pics of his tele(the black beat up one we all love) and in a few the bridge pickup was red
anyone know if thats a stock pickup he painted red or what?

Also When i plunk down the cash for the us tele, is the tone comparable
tO the tone joe had in janie jones or clash city rockers? or have teles changed
so much since 71 that it will be very hard to get the same tone? and what the hell is a no load tone control anyways?
tha nks for any help or info

by the way it will be played thru a crate gt212 120 watt combo.

 

[Strat82]

Before you buy the guitar!

i'm not sure if you're looking for just joe's look, or sound, or both, but if you're looking for sound...Sell Your Amp! i just think no matter what guitar you play through that thing you won't get a great sound. but i know what it's to have a tight budget...i guess just keep in mind that joe's sound was very gritty

 

[Ben Harmless]

I wouldn't worry too much about getting exactly the guitar the Joe had. His had the neck replaced at least once, but I imagine several times considering the amount of time that guitar spent airborne.

My guess is that the red pickup was painted. Joe had a tendancy to paint things like that. I wouldn't be surprised if he used a replacement pickup in later years, but for early Clash stuff I'd gamble on a stock pickup - those boys didn't really have the money or know-how for replacements.

Personally, while the MIA tele will work, I'd get a MIM model and swap out parts to taste. Then I'd look into spednding what I had left over (maybe plus what I could get for the Crate) on a Music Man amp like Joe used. One of the major factors of Joe's tone was that Music Man.

Keep in mind though, that Joe's tone was very clean. If you listen carefully to some of the more rockin' Clash songs, you'll hear Joe in there, but most of the distorted tones came from Mick Jones. Watch a video of them and you can tell who's who.

As far as strings go, I have no idea, and I'd be surprised if anyone else did either. He did hit the guitar pretty hard, so it would've been good for him to use heavier strings, but there's no real evidence that I know of. I personally use D'Addario EJ21s (.012-.052) and it really helps the beefiness of my tone, but for Joe's cleaner guitar work, they're not really nessecary.

 

[sjaak]

I totally agree with pouch and Ben! Don't worry too much about the tele. The amp is more important!
I wouldn't spend that much money on a MIA telecaster. For half of the money you can get a nice japanese (or mexican) telecaster. I have a MIJ 50's reissue and I can get some nice Strummer tones. Better sell your amp and buy another one (if you really want that Strummer tone). His sound was indeed really clean with a nice echo/delay.

 

[Ron_Fouler]

As far as Amps are concerned...

I read in an earlier post that Joe used a Roland JC120; was that just in the post-clash years, or did he use one on "Sandanista" etc?

 

[jz63]

I'm pretty sure that the Music Man combo was his Clash era amp and the JC-120 came into play in the solo years, but I could be wrong! Given Joe's no-nonesense attitude I am not surprised he favoured a dependable roadworthy amp like the JC-120.

The contrast between Mick's Les Paul into a Boogie distorted tone contrasted with Joe's clean tele sounds worked really well. Two distorted guitars blaring away can sound like mush but one clean and one distorted
can sound huge.. way huge.

As far as buying a "Joe" tele... go for a 60's Classis MIM in Black and you're close as your gonna get! I got one and it's a great guitar.

 

[Ben Harmless]

The JC-120 was definantly a post-Clash amp. Every picture I've seen of Joe playing with the Clash showed a Music Man (except one with a Marshall - go figure!) and every shot I've seen of Joe with the Mescaleros featured a JC-120. Personally, I've owned a 120, and I'd prefer the Music Man for cleans - there's just a little more life there.

 

[RIFF WOLF]

JOE STRUMMER

BSO- dont worry to much about this amp or that amp; joe used numerous tube amps in the clash. i saw him many times solo using the horrible IMO JC-120 and it worked great for him! focus much more on the playing by both mick and joe and in the end you'll be much better
off. if you are the sole guitar player trying get the clash as a whole(more mick than joe) Marshall JCM 800's and 900's through 4X12's work great!

absolutely go with the MIA tele year doesnt really matter. try to get one cheap (like joe did). i imagine when joe got his 71 it wasn't "vintage" just a few years old tele. (however joe did have quite a large collection of guitars even in his squatting days)

used MIA's 90's through present can be had all day anywhere for between $500 and $700. dont worry about changing pickups most of the time this is just hype.
MIA's are noticeably better in playability, design, workmanship, and adjustability; than their overseas counterparts. IMO the 90's through the present are the best fender guitars ever made.

again dont worry too much about the gear as much as the practicing; but realize that down the road the JCM 900+4X12+MIA tele is all the rig you will ever need.
this set up goes for @$1500 used.

save your dough for the good stuff and you wont be disappointed; and you'll probably save money in the end, rather than years pursuing a sound that is "just as good"
with subpar gear. trust me, i learned the hard way.

btw-joe and mick; contrary to myth were well versed musicians, playing in numerous bands of varying styles before the clash.

 

[RIFF WOLF]

RE

.010's work fine. tone is more in your fingers than anything else.

 

[Ben Harmless]

RIFF WOLF! Don't let the secret out!

For those who don't mind having a small bubble popped, Joe didn't need to be a squatter - he was the son of a diplomat, and wasn't actually hurting for money. The thing is, he rejected most of it, and for good reason too.

...But yeah, as much as Joe claims to have only had that one telecaster, he did at very least have a number of other guitars. They were mostly acoustics and archtops though. He can be seen holding them in various Clash, and post-Clash photos.

The amp however, I believe was pretty consistant. The Music Man was almost always behind him. There were a few times when I thought I saw a Fender, but they were few and far between. In the studio, who knows...

And yes, I agree, the JCM800 half-stack I have sounds great for Clash tunes, even if they didn't use Marshalls (much).

 

[RIFF WOLF]

re

ben-i always enjoy your clash posts! did you read "the last gang in town" if not you'll dig it.

 

[Ben Harmless]

Nope. Haven't read that one yet. A guy I knew met Joe once, and Joe indicated that one of the two major books on the Clash was great, and the other one not so great, and I can't remember which one...

Anyway, here's one for the fans: Clash multimedia archive

You have to register to use it, but it's well worth the effort.

 

[telemonian]

big audio dynamite

I heard an interview with Joe on NPR about 4 or 5 years ago and he said that a big part of the clash sound was that they simply didn't know how to play their instruments. That said I don't think you could go wrong with the MIM and Music Man combo.

 

[RIFF WOLF]

re

"big audio dynamite
Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 1:14 pm


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I heard an interview with Joe on NPR about 4 or 5 years ago and he said that a big part of the clash sound was that they simply didn't know how to play their instruments. "

Joe was never against the letting the punk rock hype machine have some more petrol!

Joe and Mick both studied music relentlessly, could play pretty well; or well enough, and were in several bands prior to the clash.

 

[powerchord10]

I'm building a semi-replica (a tribute, i guess) of Joe's tele. He did have a great tone and I don't think he gets enough credit for his playing, he was a great rhythm player. A great frontman too.

He must have done the pickup by hand...he was into the DIY stuff. I'm spraying it...I used a hole punch to punch out pieces of masking tape to cover the pole pieces, i masked off the rest so now all i have to do it spray it.

Are you doing the "ignore alien orders" guitar...the one with the question mark on the back and NOISE stencil?

good luck!

 

[PittsburghGuy]

Harry:

MIAs can be had relatively cheap as another poster has already mentioned. I just got a black, floor model 2002 MIA for $599 from a dealer with the HSC and the goody pack. Had a few scratches on the back which are only noticable when you reflect light against it.

The "no load" tone control, aka Delta Tone, is just a bypass of the tone control. When you turn the tone control to "10" it disengages the tone pot from the pickup and the pickup signal goes straight to the output jack. Gimmicky? Perhaps. It adds a little more brightness and unfortunately a little more hum. That being said, I do find use for it.

John

 

[TG]

Here's some trivia for you...

Charlene Spiteri (sp?) who fronts the band Texas plays a black tele that she bought because it was like the one she saw Joe Strummer playing on TV when she was a little girl. She found a '67...made the year she was born.

 

[BrooklynSkinheadOi!]

thanks for all the replies!
anyone got a source for a music man amp? I am currently using a crate blue voodo, but wanted the ease of a combo amp, the gt212 sounded like a good deal. why do you guys feel its crappy?
i would have maybe considered a mim tele, but they only have maple necks. and its the tone i am trying to replicate again like the tone heard ala janie jones or clash city rockers or tommy gun.

AND DOES ANYONE HAVE A SOURCE FOR A USED MIA TELE BLACK WITH ROSEWOOD FINGERBOARD? and how come they dont just reissiue the 71?

 

[El Capitan]

Because......

71 ain't that special.
Just get ANY Tele with, A rosewood board, decent electron movers (pots pickups etc.) , and you are there TONE wise.
Get it in black spray paint over sunburst,white guard, and you are really there.

 

[simon]

the MIA is NOT what you are looking for at all

i don't think that the MIA Standard is what you are after at all! for these reasons:

- The MIA Standard Tele has a modern bridge and modern neck.

- Joe Strummer's main Tele (in fact all his Teles did) has a vintage-style Bridge. In fact it has the Vintage-Six-Saddle Bridge. This bridge gives you a different sound than the modern bridge. The bridge-Material is much thinner and the saddles are totally different.

- Also even so he had to replace the neck on his main guitar several times (due to flinging it to a roadie in the wings every couple of numbers) he always chose vintage-style necks.

- The MIA Standard neck is a different shape allover than the ones Joe Strummer was using. - gives you a different sound. Also it looks much different with its wide headstock.

- The MIM Vintage-Style Teles have a neck that IMHO is closer to Strummers although i think it is thinner ...

- The neck and the bridge shape the sound of the guitar (PU's and electrics aside because they are easy to change).

- Why don't you buy a Tele that was made in the early Seventies? You may find one for less money than a new MIA and it will be just like Joe's.

Simon