Chord categories?

[pypa]

(edited)

You are right, you asked a simple question and we ended up lecturing you.

Those are not jazz chords per se (jazz sometimes implies extensions - not just the number of strings or position of the chord).

More than likely, the chords you are talking about are sections of barre chords. There are 5 barre chord positions. The standard ones are E and A, but there exist C, G, and D. They're harder to finger and a lot of people just take 3-4 notes of these harder forms because they're easier to finger and switch between.

I would suggest that a better way to think of them is "C in D (barre) form"

 

[Hari Seldon]

Boys, you are great.

Nobody seems to bother to read what the question is, but give lessons instead.

So I learned what triads, cowboy chords and extensions are. How can I ever find back to my state of ignorance????

Thank you.

 

[BigDaddyLH]

I distinguish between three things.

A *chord* is formally something you'd see in sheet music: E-A-D-G from the bottom line to above the top line of the treble clef.

Then there is where you play it on the neck: xx2233 or x7778x, for example.

Then there is your grip, or fingering. This will be specific way of playing xx2233: you could use all four fingers, or just your index and middle, or index and ring fingers.

Nevertheless, informally, people will refer to all of these as "chords". Context.

 

[Wally]

I hope that's not a stupid question.

We have open chords (or cowboy chords or whatever) that use open strings.
We have barre chords that make use of one finger stopping multiple strings.

And then we have the endless number of chords that use three or four strings.
These are the standard in Jazz or any more sophisticated guitar playing.

How are these called? Is there a name for that category at all?
In fact the first two kinds (open, barre) are viewed as the "normal" chords, since they are what most players always or only use. But in a sense these are the exceptions, because they are limited musically.

Do we call the third kind "Jazz chords"? Or ist there a better denotation?
I think it shouldn't be limited to a certain musical genre.

Boys, you are great.

Nobody seems to bother to read what the question is, but give lessons instead.

So I learned what triads, cowboy chords and extensions are. How can I ever find back to my state of ignorance????

Thank you.

hari, imho and ime, when a question is asked here one is likely to get a ‘lesson’. Otherwise, it is hard to answer a question..ime....
That is if one considers another’s thoughts on the question that was asked as a lesson. I enjoy the lessons or thoughts shared here because I always need to learn something because.....well, I don’t know as much as many others here.
I was taught ‘chords’.....simple chords...open and barre E and A. I never heard the term open or cowboy chords as is usually applied to those chords in the first three frets that sometimes use open strings. I wish I had been taught more about chords with regard to how they are built. I learned some of that in high school choir by realizing that the four voice parts were forming chords. I should have ‘realized’ much more much earlier.
I am a simple person. That is why my first reply was simply ‘they are chords’. From my simple point of view, there are problems with the classification that you want to apply. For instance, there are many open chords in those first three frets that are anything but simple. Hey, tune the guitar in standard tuning and strum the open strings....that is a chord and is not a simple chord but a chord that contains 5 notes...two E notes count as one except for the voice of the chord, I suppose. Same with say the barre E form. One can play complex chords out of that barre form....one simply has to apply extensions to get to them. Would you call a barre E form has been ‘extended’ to form a major13 a jazz chord...a blues chord...or ????? The Hendrix chord can be played out of that barre E form, and it is an extension...a 7b9......jazz chord? Rock Chord?? blues chord?? Classical chord? In my world, it is a chord....I use it in different types of music.
Cowboy chords.....I find this one interesting because if we listen to true cowboy music, we are going to hear what some would classify as jazz chords. They are not necessarily first position open chords. Yes, I understand the common usage of that term, but imho classifications are limiting and often lead to incomplete understanding.
This is not a lesson but a sharing from my simple way of understanding what little I understand. And....I am willing to learn as I already have in this thread. Almost every time I pick up a guitar I learn a new chord and/or movement.
Here’s a way for a larger perspective perhaps....the character Hari Seldon did not have a limited perspective but rather saw way beyond the limits that might have been placed by others.
enjoy guitar...it is a simple instrument that can be played in very complex ways....ime.

 

[klasaine]

I'll make it simple ...

Extended chords or chords with extensions - a chord with a number after it i.e., C9 or Bb7/6 (or Bb13), Dmaj9, Fm9, Absus4, A2, etc. All these 'extensions' are in the key or the scale that the chord is derived from. *Also, if you stack 3rds you'll get the extensions: C E G B D = Cmaj9. You're extending the chord.

Altered chords - F7b9, G9#5, E7#9#5 (or E7+9+5), Dbmaj7#11, A7susb9, etc. These 'alterations' are not in the key or scale - they are altered.

Two notes if they are the root and the 3rd, the 3rd and the fifth or the 3rd and the 7th are called Dyads. In current vernacular they can be referred to as two note 'chords' since 99% of the time they will be functioning as chords. If they are on two adjacent strings the technique used to sound these two notes is called a double stop on any and all stringed instruments.
Maybe don't call them chords in your harmony and theory class but modern musicians refer to "two note chords" all the time.

 

[Wally]

Love it, klasaine...something I can understand and doesn’t cloud the issues. I have to ask though...is not a double stop also two notes that are not played on adjacent strings...as with...4,x,3 on the first three strings?

 

[PhredE]

Not sure if someone has mentioned this yet, but thought I would quickly add:

In fact the first two kinds (open, barre)

The Barre is really a fretting technique, not so much a chord 'type' (it just happens to allow the fingers to fret certain notes within certain chord types [..better than other fretting / position patterns]).

And,

+1 klasaine
Very nice summary

 

[Doctorx33]

There are no chords. It's just music. Ask a piano player If they play lead or rhythm piano.

For years I considered chords and solos separate. Chords were black boxes that made a sound you wanted. Boxes called Am, G7, etc. I had no idea what was in the boxes though. Playing lead solos was just patterns on the neck.

At some point I started looking into music theory, and realized that chord and scales are not separate entities. I learned about voice leading, what exactly makes up a chord (C major is not just a three finger open chord, if you know what notes make it up you can play it anywhere on the fretboard.) and how chords are derived. When I realized how chords are constructed from scales, it gave me a whole new look at how I played, and improved my ability immensely. I started incorporating chord patterns in my lead playing, blending everything together. I changed from a guitar that played music to a musician that played guitar.

There are no chords. It's just music.

"You play guitar? Do you play lead or rhythm?" Neither lady, I just play guitar.

 

[MilwMark]

I'll make it simple ...

Extended chords or chords with extensions - a chord with a number after it i.e., C9 or Bb7/6 (or Bb13), Dmaj9, Fm9, Absus4, A2, etc. All these 'extensions' are in the key or the scale that the chord is derived from. *Also, if you stack 3rds you'll get the extensions: C E G B D = Cmaj9. You're extending the chord.

Altered chords - F7b9, G9#5, E7#9#5 (or E7+9+5), Dbmaj7#11, A7susb9, etc. These 'alterations' are not in the key or scale - they are altered.

Two notes if they are the root and the 3rd, the 3rd and the fifth or the 3rd and the 7th are called Dyads. In current vernacular they can be referred to as two note 'chords' since 99% of the time they will be functioning as chords. If they are on two adjacent strings the technique used to sound these two notes is called a double stop on any and all stringed instruments.
Maybe don't call them chords in your harmony and theory class but modern musicians refer to "two note chords" all the time.

This is great.

I'm not a theory guy. So to keep it easy for myself:

1. "Open" or "Cowboy" chords. Played on first three frets featuring open strings.
2. Full Barre chords. Same chords. Using first finger as the nut. Featuring 5-6 strings.
3. Triads - the key to all guitar for me. All of it. Theory. Understanding the neck, the notes. Rhythm, lead and fills. Spend your time on these, not on scales.
5. Dyads. I like that. I've not really heard that term. I use "Dyads" all the time in a two guitar band. To suggest a chord without cluttering things up. Or to build riffs/fills. Guys like Page, EVH and so many others are masters at Triads and "Dyads" IMO.
6. Tetrads. I'm not sure if that's a real term but I've heard it thrown about for what some here have called "closed" or "Jazz" chords.

Not sure if that will be useful to anyone other than me.

If anyone is so inclined, my application of this theory can most recently be heard on our latest album, where I play "second"/lead guitar (riffs, fills, leads, oh, and lap steel). https://floormodel.bandcamp.com/album/slightly-damaged

 

[Doctorx33]

Something else, if you think you "know all the chords", get a copy of Ted Greenes "Chord Chemistry".

You will be humbled.

 

[Hari Seldon]

hari, imho and ime, when a question is asked here one is likely to get a ‘lesson’. Otherwise, it is hard to answer a question..

I just wanted to know if there's a name for it.
It's ok to broaden the subject because, like you said, there are many people who may learn something new.
But out of respect I wouldn't give someone a lesson who stated that he's a teacher.

 

[Hari Seldon]

There are no chords. It's just music. Ask a piano player If they play lead or rhythm piano.

There is no cheese. It's just the pizza.

The idea of lead and rrhythm guitar is indeed a bad one, and even Curtis Mayfield showed it the Hendrix how to reach further than the Shadow's model of guitar playing.

But chords are not limited to guitars. There ist no understanding of most music without understanding chords.

 

[SRHmusic]

For students, I'd go with open chords, barre chords and either movable or jazz chords, but in the next breath explain that these aren't really strict definitions and they're all related. Good if you get into intervals and chord construction with some students, even have them find/make new fingerings etc.

 

[lathoto]

G Major - G B D
G Minor - G Bb D
G7 - G B D F
Gmaj7 - G B D F#
Gm7 - G Bb D F

Gm7 (lose the tonic) Bb D F - Bb Major

 

[BigDaddyLH]

One way I group jazz chords: drop-2, drop-3, drop-2,4, and generally "spread". It just a convenient mental filing cabinet.

 

[strat a various]

There is no cheese. It's just the pizza.

The idea of lead and rrhythm guitar is indeed a bad one, and even Curtis Mayfield showed it the Hendrix how to reach further than the Shadow's model of guitar playing.

But chords are not limited to guitars. There ist no understanding of most music without understanding chords.

... without understanding harmony.

 

[klasaine]

Love it, klasaine...something I can understand and doesn’t cloud the issues. I have to ask though...is not a double stop also two notes that are not played on adjacent strings...as with...4,x,3 on the first three strings?

With guitar the term has evolved to where yeah, you can skip a string. Originally though it's a term from the viol family of instruments. Two adjacent strings was all that was possible due to the curvature of the fingerboard and bridge.

 

[Wally]

I just wanted to know if there's a name for it.
It's ok to broaden the subject because, like you said, there are many people who may learn something new.
But out of respect I wouldn't give someone a lesson who stated that he's a teacher.

To paraphrase an old hippie comedy group’s take on things.....’we’re all students on this bus.’ Ime, any teacher that knows it all is not a teacher from whom I would take any lessons.

 

[ASATKat]

I hope that's not a stupid question.

We have open chords (or cowboy chords or whatever) that use open strings.
We have barre chords that make use of one finger stopping multiple strings.

And then we have the endless number of chords that use three or four strings.
These are the standard in Jazz or any more sophisticated guitar playing.

How are these called? Is there a name for that category at all?
In fact the first two kinds (open, barre) are viewed as the "normal" chords, since they are what most players always or only use. But in a sense these are the exceptions, because they are limited musically.

Do we call the third kind "Jazz chords"? Or ist there a better denotation?
I think it shouldn't be limited to a certain musical genre.

This is a discussion about chord voicings popular in jazz.

Close voiced vs drop2

This is a closed voiced chord,

Cmaj7
---7 voice 1
---8
---9
-10 voice 4
-
-

You can take the same chord and lower the 2nd voice an octave, this is called a drop2 voicing, same four tones.

Cmaj7
..cv.......drop 2
---7----------7
---8----------5
---9----------5
-10----------5
-----------------
-----------------

All chords without open strings work this way, close voiced and drop 2. Read up on those two.

 

[strat a various]

To paraphrase an old hippie comedy group’s take on things.....’we’re all students on this bus.’ Ime, any teacher that knows it all is not a teacher from whom I would take any lessons.

To paraphrase an old hippie comedy group’s take on things.....’we’re all students on this bus.’ Ime, any teacher that knows it all is not a teacher from whom I would take any lessons.

Teachers should learn from the act of teaching. The better teacher they are, the more they should be learning themselves as they teach.