1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

Chord categories?

Discussion in 'Tab, Tips, Theory and Technique' started by Hari Seldon, Jan 21, 2021.

  1. pypa

    pypa Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

    Age:
    51
    Posts:
    300
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2020
    Location:
    new jersey
    (edited)

    You are right, you asked a simple question and we ended up lecturing you.

    Those are not jazz chords per se (jazz sometimes implies extensions - not just the number of strings or position of the chord).

    More than likely, the chords you are talking about are sections of barre chords. There are 5 barre chord positions. The standard ones are E and A, but there exist C, G, and D. They're harder to finger and a lot of people just take 3-4 notes of these harder forms because they're easier to finger and switch between.

    I would suggest that a better way to think of them is "C in D (barre) form"
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
  2. Hari Seldon

    Hari Seldon Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    387
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2015
    Location:
    Germany
    Boys, you are great.

    Nobody seems to bother to read what the question is, but give lessons instead.

    So I learned what triads, cowboy chords and extensions are. How can I ever find back to my state of ignorance????

    Thank you.
     
    Harry Styron and MilwMark like this.
  3. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    56,685
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Location:
    Kelowna, BC, Canuckistan
    I distinguish between three things.

    A *chord* is formally something you'd see in sheet music: E-A-D-G from the bottom line to above the top line of the treble clef.

    Then there is where you play it on the neck: xx2233 or x7778x, for example.

    Then there is your grip, or fingering. This will be specific way of playing xx2233: you could use all four fingers, or just your index and middle, or index and ring fingers.

    Nevertheless, informally, people will refer to all of these as "chords". Context.
     
  4. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    38,667
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX

    hari, imho and ime, when a question is asked here one is likely to get a ‘lesson’. Otherwise, it is hard to answer a question..ime....
    That is if one considers another’s thoughts on the question that was asked as a lesson. I enjoy the lessons or thoughts shared here because I always need to learn something because.....well, I don’t know as much as many others here.
    I was taught ‘chords’.....simple chords...open and barre E and A. I never heard the term open or cowboy chords as is usually applied to those chords in the first three frets that sometimes use open strings. I wish I had been taught more about chords with regard to how they are built. I learned some of that in high school choir by realizing that the four voice parts were forming chords. I should have ‘realized’ much more much earlier.
    I am a simple person. That is why my first reply was simply ‘they are chords’. From my simple point of view, there are problems with the classification that you want to apply. For instance, there are many open chords in those first three frets that are anything but simple. Hey, tune the guitar in standard tuning and strum the open strings....that is a chord and is not a simple chord but a chord that contains 5 notes...two E notes count as one except for the voice of the chord, I suppose. Same with say the barre E form. One can play complex chords out of that barre form....one simply has to apply extensions to get to them. Would you call a barre E form has been ‘extended’ to form a major13 a jazz chord...a blues chord...or ????? The Hendrix chord can be played out of that barre E form, and it is an extension...a 7b9......jazz chord? Rock Chord?? blues chord?? Classical chord? In my world, it is a chord....I use it in different types of music.
    Cowboy chords.....I find this one interesting because if we listen to true cowboy music, we are going to hear what some would classify as jazz chords. They are not necessarily first position open chords. Yes, I understand the common usage of that term, but imho classifications are limiting and often lead to incomplete understanding.
    This is not a lesson but a sharing from my simple way of understanding what little I understand. And....I am willing to learn as I already have in this thread. Almost every time I pick up a guitar I learn a new chord and/or movement.
    Here’s a way for a larger perspective perhaps....the character Hari Seldon did not have a limited perspective but rather saw way beyond the limits that might have been placed by others.
    enjoy guitar...it is a simple instrument that can be played in very complex ways....ime.
     
    Doctorx33 likes this.
  5. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    9,304
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Location:
    Los Angeles, Ca
    I'll make it simple ...

    Extended chords or chords with extensions - a chord with a number after it i.e., C9 or Bb7/6 (or Bb13), Dmaj9, Fm9, Absus4, A2, etc. All these 'extensions' are in the key or the scale that the chord is derived from. *Also, if you stack 3rds you'll get the extensions: C E G B D = Cmaj9. You're extending the chord.

    Altered chords - F7b9, G9#5, E7#9#5 (or E7+9+5), Dbmaj7#11, A7susb9, etc. These 'alterations' are not in the key or scale - they are altered.

    Two notes if they are the root and the 3rd, the 3rd and the fifth or the 3rd and the 7th are called Dyads. In current vernacular they can be referred to as two note 'chords' since 99% of the time they will be functioning as chords. If they are on two adjacent strings the technique used to sound these two notes is called a double stop on any and all stringed instruments.
    Maybe don't call them chords in your harmony and theory class but modern musicians refer to "two note chords" all the time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
  6. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    38,667
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    Love it, klasaine...something I can understand and doesn’t cloud the issues. I have to ask though...is not a double stop also two notes that are not played on adjacent strings...as with...4,x,3 on the first three strings?
     
  7. PhredE

    PhredE Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,145
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2017
    Location:
    Suburban PDX, OR
    Not sure if someone has mentioned this yet, but thought I would quickly add:

    The Barre is really a fretting technique, not so much a chord 'type' (it just happens to allow the fingers to fret certain notes within certain chord types [..better than other fretting / position patterns]).

    And,

    +1 klasaine
    Very nice summary
     
  8. Doctorx33

    Doctorx33 Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    1,986
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Location:
    Atlanta
    There are no chords. It's just music. Ask a piano player If they play lead or rhythm piano.

    For years I considered chords and solos separate. Chords were black boxes that made a sound you wanted. Boxes called Am, G7, etc. I had no idea what was in the boxes though. Playing lead solos was just patterns on the neck.

    At some point I started looking into music theory, and realized that chord and scales are not separate entities. I learned about voice leading, what exactly makes up a chord (C major is not just a three finger open chord, if you know what notes make it up you can play it anywhere on the fretboard.) and how chords are derived. When I realized how chords are constructed from scales, it gave me a whole new look at how I played, and improved my ability immensely. I started incorporating chord patterns in my lead playing, blending everything together. I changed from a guitar that played music to a musician that played guitar.

    There are no chords. It's just music.

    "You play guitar? Do you play lead or rhythm?" Neither lady, I just play guitar.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
  9. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    12,327
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2013
    Location:
    near Arnold's
    This is great.

    I'm not a theory guy. So to keep it easy for myself:

    1. "Open" or "Cowboy" chords. Played on first three frets featuring open strings.
    2. Full Barre chords. Same chords. Using first finger as the nut. Featuring 5-6 strings.
    3. Triads - the key to all guitar for me. All of it. Theory. Understanding the neck, the notes. Rhythm, lead and fills. Spend your time on these, not on scales.
    5. Dyads. I like that. I've not really heard that term. I use "Dyads" all the time in a two guitar band. To suggest a chord without cluttering things up. Or to build riffs/fills. Guys like Page, EVH and so many others are masters at Triads and "Dyads" IMO.
    6. Tetrads. I'm not sure if that's a real term but I've heard it thrown about for what some here have called "closed" or "Jazz" chords.

    Not sure if that will be useful to anyone other than me.

    If anyone is so inclined, my application of this theory can most recently be heard on our latest album, where I play "second"/lead guitar (riffs, fills, leads, oh, and lap steel). https://floormodel.bandcamp.com/album/slightly-damaged
     
    Doctorx33 likes this.
  10. Doctorx33

    Doctorx33 Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    1,986
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Something else, if you think you "know all the chords", get a copy of Ted Greenes "Chord Chemistry".

    You will be humbled.
     
    Wally and PhredE like this.
  11. Hari Seldon

    Hari Seldon Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    387
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2015
    Location:
    Germany
    I just wanted to know if there's a name for it.
    It's ok to broaden the subject because, like you said, there are many people who may learn something new.
    But out of respect I wouldn't give someone a lesson who stated that he's a teacher.
     
    Wally likes this.
  12. Hari Seldon

    Hari Seldon Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    387
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2015
    Location:
    Germany
    There is no cheese. It's just the pizza.

    The idea of lead and rrhythm guitar is indeed a bad one, and even Curtis Mayfield showed it the Hendrix how to reach further than the Shadow's model of guitar playing.

    But chords are not limited to guitars. There ist no understanding of most music without understanding chords.
     
  13. SRHmusic

    SRHmusic Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    789
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2020
    Location:
    North Carolina, USA
    For students, I'd go with open chords, barre chords and either movable or jazz chords, but in the next breath explain that these aren't really strict definitions and they're all related. Good if you get into intervals and chord construction with some students, even have them find/make new fingerings etc.
     
    kbold and PhredE like this.
  14. lathoto

    lathoto Tele-Meister

    Age:
    64
    Posts:
    269
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2020
    Location:
    Ohio
    G Major - G B D
    G Minor - G Bb D
    G7 - G B D F
    Gmaj7 - G B D F#
    Gm7 - G Bb D F

    Gm7 (lose the tonic) Bb D F - Bb Major
     
  15. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    56,685
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Location:
    Kelowna, BC, Canuckistan
    One way I group jazz chords: drop-2, drop-3, drop-2,4, and generally "spread". It just a convenient mental filing cabinet.
     
  16. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,116
    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Location:
    Texas
    ... without understanding harmony.
     
    Rowdyman and Larry F like this.
  17. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    9,304
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Location:
    Los Angeles, Ca
    With guitar the term has evolved to where yeah, you can skip a string. Originally though it's a term from the viol family of instruments. Two adjacent strings was all that was possible due to the curvature of the fingerboard and bridge.
     
    Rowdyman, Larry F and Wally like this.
  18. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    38,667
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    To paraphrase an old hippie comedy group’s take on things.....’we’re all students on this bus.’ Ime, any teacher that knows it all is not a teacher from whom I would take any lessons.
     
    Rowdyman and klasaine like this.
  19. ASATKat

    ASATKat Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    67
    Posts:
    4,296
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    Location:
    next to the burn zone
    This is a discussion about chord voicings popular in jazz.

    Close voiced vs drop2

    This is a closed voiced chord,

    Cmaj7
    ---7 voice 1
    ---8
    ---9
    -10 voice 4
    -
    -

    You can take the same chord and lower the 2nd voice an octave, this is called a drop2 voicing, same four tones.

    Cmaj7
    ..cv.......drop 2
    ---7----------7
    ---8----------5
    ---9----------5
    -10----------5
    -----------------
    -----------------

    All chords without open strings work this way, close voiced and drop 2. Read up on those two.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
  20. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,116
    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Location:
    Texas
    Teachers should learn from the act of teaching. The better teacher they are, the more they should be learning themselves as they teach.
     
    codamedia, Wally and klasaine like this.
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.