Changing amp character

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by naveed211, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. naveed211

    naveed211 Tele-Holic

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    So, I bought a Gibson Goldtone online, an amp I also had years ago. This one has the same speaker, but different brand of tubes (It’s An el84 amp by the way), and has had a Mercury Magnetics OT put in. It has a good sound especially clean, but the overdrive doesn’t sound like how I remember. It sounds much more like a Tweed Deluxe kind of fuzzy/farty breakup versus more of a 18 watt Marshall type roar that I recall from my last one.

    what would be the first step to making it sound more Marshally versus Tweedy in the drive sound? Are the tubes the biggest culprit? If I throw a MIAB in front will it naturally take on the characteristic of the pedal?
     
  2. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    The Two Step Plan:

    Sell your Goldtone.

    Buy something "Marshally".

    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    Even my tubed out Lead 12 doesn't sound like a Marshall.

    It sounds like a Soldano.

    :cool: :cool: :cool:
     
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  3. naveed211

    naveed211 Tele-Holic

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    That’s fair. If the clean wasn’t so gorgeous it would be an easy decision. I guess my question would be will a Marshall style pedal overtake that natural break fuzzy type sound if the amp itself isn’t getting pushed into natural overdrive before the pedal? Or am I pretty much stuck with that style of gain inherent?
     
  4. muscmp

    muscmp Tele-Afflicted

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    most likely no. follow muchxs. you don't like that amp? get one you do like.

    play music!
     
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  5. naveed211

    naveed211 Tele-Holic

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    fair enough. Thanks!
     
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  6. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    It's weird. I spent literally decades chasing the most OTT overdrive tone I could find. Turns out the recipe is to start with a good solid clean tone and add gain.

    Except:

    There are plenty of amps that sound great clean. Some of 'em fall apart when we add gain.

    I eyeballed your Gold tone schematic to see if it could be something that falls apart with gain added. GA-15RV designed by Trace Elliot, right? Underlying architecture is roughly "Marshall 18 watt" with an extra gain stage.

    It's probably another case of "less is more". V1a is clobbering V1B.
     
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  7. naveed211

    naveed211 Tele-Holic

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    yeah, I don’t know. It cleans up beautifully, too, but it’s strange, it sounds exactly like the 60s Gibson Lancer I had which is a Deluxe circuit. That exact type of tone, which I wouldn’t expect from an el84 amp at all.
     
  8. black_doug

    black_doug Friend of Leo's

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    I also owned a Goldtone but it was 4 EL84s putting out 30 watts through 2 x 12.

    It has it's own sound. Neither Marshall or Vox. Somewhere in between.

    I like it but not the weight so I traded it in for a Dr. Z (head and cab).
     
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  9. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    Ah, yes.

    Student of the tweed Deluxe here. That would be your 5E3, GA-18 (roughly), GA-18T (roughly), Silvertone 1472 and 1482 (roughly), DeArmond R15T / Martin M112T and if anyone has a schematic for either of those I'd like to see it...

    Seems more builders built their own versions of the tweed Deluxe back in the '60s than they do now.

    Tell you what. Try a 5751 in V1.
     
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  10. roycaster

    roycaster Tele-Holic

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    The Plexi-Drive is pretty much the go to Marshall in a box. If like the amp’s cleans it could be worth a try…
     
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  11. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I tried those Trace and Gibson branded same amps in I think the early '90s and they had a sort of mushy indistinct thing with not bottom end articulation. At that time there wasn't much for small vintage style dirt amps, I guess the Pro Jr was about it so that Gibson/ Trace caused some excitement. There was also Matchless but nobody could afford to even try those out then.

    I have three 18w Marshall variants and one has 6v6 instead of el84.
    They all sound like the circuit, not like the power tubes.
    I can change tubes and speakers to get a more ratty falling apart sound or a more tight articulate sound.
    These are not the same as the Trace/ Gibson but it might still be possible to tighten up the dirt with a tighter speaker and the 5751 @muchxs suggested.

    Can't say for sure though as an amp is often an amp as opposed to a set of ideas we can bat around on the internet and hear the result of.

    I'll add that I tried a used beat up Matchless DC30 and it sounded mushy and indistinct, but that was I'm pretty sure because the power tubes were used up. Could have been mushed out half blown speaker too I guess, not sure but it didn't sound as it should have.
     
  12. gusfinley

    gusfinley Tele-Holic

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  13. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    Bear in mind if it's got a MM transformer it's likely got other changes that are combining probably to take it in the Tweedy direction. Removing NFB and changing coupling caps, plus a couple signal cap changes will push it more that way. If they've gone .1 caps interstage, there's your fartout.
     
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  14. Bartholomew3

    Bartholomew3 Friend of Leo's

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    WGS ET65 speaker IMO - will transform the personality of the amp, speaker is 50% of the sound.
     
  15. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    It goes without saying so I usually don't say it:

    EL84s were designed to be disposable. We could argue the point. My observation has been old 6V6s last nearly forever. not so old EL84s don't.

    Throwing a fresh pair of EL84s at it might make a difference. I was lookin' at Ukrainian vendors on eBay. They'll give you a super deal if you buy five pairs. Those should last you a while.
     
  16. jsnwhite619

    jsnwhite619 Friend of Leo's

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    I didn't read every word on here, but if it's one you bought online and it already had the MM OT replacement, did you check to see if it's a proper replacement OT for the amp? Just being a Mercury doesn't necessarily mean it's the right model if it's that drastically different than what you remember/expected in sound.
     
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