Champion 600 Upgrades

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by cacibi, Jan 23, 2008.

  1. dankilling

    dankilling Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    1,456
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Location:
    Lehigh Valley, PA
    I'm thinking I need to build a Champion 600 style cab for a future project. Really digging these custom cabs!
     
  2. EyesHockey

    EyesHockey TDPRI Member Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    43
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2015
    Location:
    Alexandria, VA
    andocommando,

    That looks like a nice cabinet too. I'm sure you're loving the larger speaker just like me.
     
  3. Paul in Colorado

    Paul in Colorado Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    23,351
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    R.I.P. 2019
    Bringing back a zombie thread here.

    I have a '52 Silvertone (Valco) that's roughly a Champ(ion 600) in circuit and looks. I'm looking for an amp to run with it using stereo effects and came upon the Champion 600. With all of the mods out there I think I should be able to get in the ballpark which is all I need right now.

    Now I just need to find one of these amps at an affordable price. If you see one for around $100-125 in a pawn shop or something let me know.
     
  4. ballynally2

    ballynally2 Tele-Holic

    Age:
    56
    Posts:
    662
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2009
    Location:
    donegal ireland
    Hi Bill, which values did you end up with regarding coupling caps? Im looking at the schematic trying to determine which is which.
    I think C3 and C10 seem to act as bypass cabs in combi with a resistor instead of a coupling cap after the plate.could C2 be a coupling cap by any chance (.022uF)? How about C7?

    All in all to reduce the amount of bass on 'tap'.I was thinking 1.5 uF for the standard coupling cap instead of the usual 22 (slope point around 150 hz i think.)on the 600 schematic both caps are 22uF and both look to be bypass caps.
    I don't intend to take out the bypass caps altogether like you did but might alter values if any coupling cap alterations do not have the desired effect.I might also go full tweed bypassing the tonestack.Most of the time ive been happy with that in Fender amps.
    I have a Traynor DH15 that has the option of both.I use the blackface tonestack w my p90 hollow bodies and the bypassed tonestack for tele/strat/lp.
    The amp side is going to be put in a pine 1x10" cab w possible alnico speaker.
    Rca 5751/ JJ6v6.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
    MattMrdck likes this.
  5. ballynally2

    ballynally2 Tele-Holic

    Age:
    56
    Posts:
    662
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2009
    Location:
    donegal ireland
    Couldnt edit above post, so:
    I now know C3 C10 are cathode bypass caps,C2 C7 coupling caps.
    There are various choices one can make. They all depend on your order of importance.So, stock w better 6" speaker or bigger speaker (8, 10", different cab).Do we change the circuit to accomodate the speaker or vice versa?
    Do we like blackface or tweed or want to keep both options.How about gain? Which valves are going to be used and, again, do we change the circuit to accomodate the valves or vice versa?
    When people are modding they make those choices.
    Some here opt for a classic 5F1 circuit but keep the ss rectifier.At least they know what they want. I am not so sure myself.I actually like the blackface champ sound for edge of breakup but prefer tweed for distortion.
    With the fixed tonestack its hard to keep a balanced eq when pushing. Not able to 'tone' down bass and treble is an issue.
    Anyway, layers of complexity for me with the seemingly simple champion 600.Not as straightforward as i'd like..
     
  6. ballynally2

    ballynally2 Tele-Holic

    Age:
    56
    Posts:
    662
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2009
    Location:
    donegal ireland
    Ive now settled on: C3 cathode bypass cap,stock 22 uF changed to 2.2uF. Mid resistor R19, stock 15uF changed to 28 uF.
    Will consider lowering the treble resistor.
    2x Eminence GA10sc64 in separate cabs, RCA 5751, JJ 6v6.
    Clips later but it sounds very good so far (telecaster)
     
    MattMrdck likes this.
  7. havlma1

    havlma1 Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    124
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2017
    Location:
    Middle of Europe
    Another zombie thread resurrection :) I've seen one Champ for sale in my neigbourhood and I knew I have to get. So I went to try it and immediately fell in love with its tone. It is stock, no mods.

    I'd like to hear your speaker recommendation though. The stock Fender speaker with the stock thick grill cloth sounds great for clean tones to my ears, but when overdrived it gets farty and bit fuzzy in an unpleasant way. I search for a speaker which would bring a similar clean sound and some creamy overdrive :) I can replace the stock thick grill cloth with a "real" one from Fender.

    I've tried Jensen P6V AlNiCo and it sounded bit thin, I think the midrange was too subdued(?). The magic sound which I love from the clean stock amp was not there. Any idea what speaker I shall search for? I'd like to stick to 6" or at maximum 8", no plan to rehouse the amp. Thanks! :)
     
  8. MadJack

    MadJack Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    2,351
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2012
    Location:
    ꓶꓞ ʻɹǝๅpuɐꓛ
    If you were here in the states I would recommend the Weber Alnico Signature 6S. My next choice would be Eminence Patriot 620H. I'm sure you could still get them over there in Europe, but the taxes and shipping could be rather expensive.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
    havlma1 and MattMrdck like this.
  9. havlma1

    havlma1 Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    124
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2017
    Location:
    Middle of Europe
    Thanks MadJack, Eminence 620H can be aquired here in Europe, Weber only shipped from the States, the shipping and taxes are higher than the speaker itself :)
     
    MattMrdck likes this.
  10. havlma1

    havlma1 Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    124
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2017
    Location:
    Middle of Europe
    I found a classify for Weber Signature 6 in a neighbouring country, seller willing to ship to the Czech rep., so I'd try this one and let's see how I like it. Cca 55 USD shipped. Hope it will not be sonically too far from that AlNiCo Weber.. It should arrive later this week. :)
     
  11. havlma1

    havlma1 Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    124
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2017
    Location:
    Middle of Europe
    Small update, I didn't like the Weber Signature 6 (ceramic), so I got rid of it and bouth Jensen Mod (Chicago series) 6.. This one sounds similar to the stock one, but handles the overdriven sound better. Mission accomplished ;-)
     
  12. NoTeleBob

    NoTeleBob TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    61
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2020
    Location:
    Southwestern, USA
    Bumping this zombie because it seems like the right thing to do. Will have a lot of mod questions soon:

    Is is OK to run one of these into a 3.2 ohm impedance load? I have a 12" 16 ohm in a separate cab. Parallel with the internal 8" gets me 3.2 ohms. Close enough to 4 ohms to not worry about burning anything out?
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  13. fernando

    fernando Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,141
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    I think the secondary of the output transformer in the Ch600 is in fact 3.2 ohm
    Someone will confirm, can't check it right now, sorry
     
  14. fernando

    fernando Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,141
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    Your stock one with NOS tubes and alnico Weber sounding so good, had the stock velvet grillcloth on it?

     
  15. tweedman2001

    tweedman2001 Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,288
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2014
    Location:
    Was North of There, Now Way Way South of There
    If you measure a 4 ohm speaker with a meter you will get 3.2 perfectly normal.
     
  16. NoTeleBob

    NoTeleBob TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    61
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2020
    Location:
    Southwestern, USA
    Thanks. Didn't think of even trying that measurement!
     
  17. CupofJoe

    CupofJoe TDPRI Member

    Age:
    54
    Posts:
    32
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2019
    Location:
    DC
    Building a cabinet now to use with my 600... Celestion 10-30 that pulled from a Princeton 68 reissue I think it might be fun... will post the results...
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.