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Champion 600 Upgrades

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by cacibi, Jan 23, 2008.

  1. charlieboy

    charlieboy TDPRI Member

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    Has anyone else installed a Eminence 820H in their Champ 600? I bought one a couple of months ago to replace a Jensen c8r in a new cabinet I had built for mine. The circuit is pretty much stock except for new tubes (I have tried JJ and Tungsol 12ax7's, and GE and JJ 6v6's) and I found it hard to warm up to the tone. Seems to lack a lot of the brights (although lows are very strong) when playing my Tele with Fender OV 52 pickups. When dimed it sounds great but it sounds muddier when playing at cleaner mid volumes even with bridge pickup . I'll admit the c8r may be a tad bit too bright but that can be tamed with the guitar tone knob. I guess my question is if the darker tones are characteristic with the 820h in Champ 600's ? I realize you can use EQ pedals but I'm pretty much a plug and play player. Any other users have experience with this amp and speaker ?
     
  2. Lunchie

    Lunchie Poster Extraordinaire

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    I can't believe I havent posted these pics here...

    My Champ 600 converted to a 5F1 by Boothill Amps with some Muchxs love added.

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  3. charlieboy

    charlieboy TDPRI Member

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    Anyone know if a single control tone mod is possible for the Champion 600 tone stack, something like the Pro Junior? If so would anyone have the schematics? Looks like the previous owner removed R19 which I'll re-add with a switchable toggle but it would be nice to able to adjust bass-mid-treble with one pot...
     
  4. MadJack

    MadJack Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    The circuit in the Champion 600 is identical to the AA764 Black & Silver Face Champs. Replace R20 & R21 with a 250kΩ audio pot and you'll have just a treble control.

    I've got a PCB I'm going to do the T/B tone pots on, rebias it for a 6L6GC, use bigger PT & OT with a 12" speaker and build my own cab with an unpunched chassis. Sort of a simple version of a Champ 12.
     
  5. ruger9

    ruger9 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Question: this makes a SUBTRACTIVE treble control, right? If you wanted more treble allowed to pass into circuit (with tone control wide open), you could use a 500k or 1M pot, right?

    I've been thinking of this mod myself, after I put the Tone Tubby 8" alnico in and a tone stack bypass, I'm wishing for a touch more treble on the stock tone stack, for clean tones.
     
  6. charlieboy

    charlieboy TDPRI Member

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    I've got an Patriot 820h which I've substituted with a Jensen c8r to dial in on the brights a bit more, but I think the 820h would be a fantastic speaker with the Champ 600 if you could draw in a bit more treble. I think this is why it is popular choice with the Bugara folks as it has a tone control. It's got crazy tight defined bass response for an 8" and I can't help but wonder about it's potential if you could dial in more treble bite...
     
  7. MadJack

    MadJack Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I don't think it's so much as the resistance value, as it's the value of the tone capacitor, C1. It's a 250pF cap. Try a few steps lower value caps in it's place, 220pF, 200pF, 180pF, 150pF, etc... Not sure how much of a change is needed to be noticeable, so the short wires with alligator clips test method might be in store.
     
  8. charlieboy

    charlieboy TDPRI Member

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    When I bought the amp the r19 was out the circuit unknown to me, it's now switchable on the amp. The 820h actually sounds great with tone stack enabled, well balanced tones. I've left in place of the Jensen.
     
  9. Davo17

    Davo17 Friend of Leo's

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    I wanted to ask you about the JJ 6V6 you tried. I have read they are almost a "6V6/6L6 mutt" have you noticed this? Id guess that means a bit more low end authority and a less compressed sound, especially clean. Not sure of the model name but its a huge bottle supposedly.
     
  10. nspeer

    nspeer TDPRI Member Silver Supporter

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    Speaker cable gauge and R19 mod Wire gauge?

    Hi,
    just got my Champ 600 and want to try using the 10" 4ohm Jensen speaker in my Behringer V-Tone GM110. I also want to do the R19 mod. Noob questions follow:

    1) For a 3ft or 6ft speaker cable, what gauge is recommended? Can I use 14 or 16 or even 18 gauge or is 12 gauge recommended (or does it matter)?

    2) What gauge wire is recommended for running a switch for the R19 mod?

    3) As long as I'm asking, should I solder a female 1/4" connector to the two little stubs on the back of the speaker or is there a better way?

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2014
  11. nspeer

    nspeer TDPRI Member Silver Supporter

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    Speaker surprise

    Since I'm a new Champ 600 owner and new to this thread, the honeymoon is not over yet and I'm posting a lot lately.

    Anyway, I want to use my Behringer V-Tone GM-110 as an extension cab for my Champ. The speaker in it is a 10" Jensen that is labeled "JCH 10/35B 4 ohm". I've been researching it online and it appears to be a MOD 10 35 watt 4 ohm, as opposed to the usual 8 ohm 10" MOD. Pretty cool. I know many folks have tried the 6" MOD in their Champs and I've read that it is pretty much the same as the stock speaker. So, I'm looking forward to running my Champ through the 10" MOD in my Behringer! If it doesn't sound great, wonder how a Weber 10" Alnico would sound as a replacement speaker that I would put into the Behringer Cabinet?
     
  12. WDeranged

    WDeranged TDPRI Member

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    I've tried out the ribbed Weber Sig 6 and found I didn't like the clean sound, great for dirty stuff but a serious lack of sparkle.

    I went back to the stock speaker for a while but I just put in the Jensen MOD 6 and while it's tonally similar to the stock speaker it just sounds much better, more detailed highs and less farting on the lows.

    Basically if you like the stock sound but want "better" the Jensen is the way to go, if you're going to be using lots of gain and want a more gnarly sound you'll want the Weber.
     
  13. nspeer

    nspeer TDPRI Member Silver Supporter

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    I just tried the 10" Jensen and I have to say I hated it. It broke up way too much and the low end sounded really harsh. It made me wonder if the speaker was blown, but I don't remember it sounding that way when I used it in the Behringer combo (played in clean setting). I went back to the stock 6" in Champ and MUCH preferred it. Now I'm debating on whether to replace it, and whether to go with a Weber 6" anico or a Jensen Mod 6.
     
  14. DaveKS

    DaveKS Friend of Leo's

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    Eminence now has 620h hemp replacement as well.
    http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=620H
     
  15. nspeer

    nspeer TDPRI Member Silver Supporter

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  16. DaveKS

    DaveKS Friend of Leo's

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    No I have no need for a 6" currently. Just letting you know it exists, the 820h is very popular. Don't think there could be any downside to hemp 6" unless you don't want better bottom/less shrill top out of a 6".

    http://www.eminence.com/pdf/620H.pdf
     
  17. nspeer

    nspeer TDPRI Member Silver Supporter

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    New Tubes smokey smell normal?

    I just replaced the tubes in my first tube amp, a Fender Champ 600. I bought a JJ 12AX7 and a NOS SYLVANIA 6V6GT CHROME DOME BLACK PLATE VINTAGE 1954. This is the first time I've ever replaced tubes so pardon the Noob question. I just turned on the amp for the first time with the newly replaced tubes. Is it normal to smell a slightly acrid burning smell? I don't see any smoke of any kind, just a slight smell. I don't know if it's coming off some dust, dirt, or grime from the NOS Sylvania (it didn't outwardly look dirty), or if it's just normal that something is burning off in the new JJ. I turned it off after 5 minutes so I could post here.
    Any help would be appreciated.
     
  18. WDeranged

    WDeranged TDPRI Member

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    After a couple of months messing around with various upgrades I've settled on the final configuration of my Champion 600.

    Fitting the new grill cloth was easier than I thought but maybe I got lucky. It was sagging but I held it up to an electric fan heater for a while and it went drum tight :)
     

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  19. WDeranged

    WDeranged TDPRI Member

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    The power tube does get really hot so burning dust and dirt is possible but It's hard to say, I'd let em cool down and give them a good wiping. Then I'd power it up again and keep my eyes and nose open for smoke, these amps are prone to going pop.
     
  20. DaveKS

    DaveKS Friend of Leo's

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    Nice grill cloth selection. 3 thumbs up, open, airy, attractive too.

     
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