Champ thought experiment: one guitar, into both inputs

[hotrodchamp]

Hello all. Long time lurker. New poster.

Is my latest brain fart a bad idea? Is it even electrically sound to do? What would happen if I did the following:

1) Wire my Telecaster to have independent volumes for neck humbucker and bridge single connected separately to a stereo jack.

2) use a stereo to dual mono instrument cable to connect my pickups independently into inputs 1 and 2. Say the neck humbucker into input 1 and the bridge to 2. And using the volumes to blend my desired tone.

In my mind the effect might be similar to having the pickups wired in series and out to a usual mono jack.

What do you guys think?

Just as an aside:

Neck pickup is a SD SM3
Bridge pickup is a Monty Broadcaster

 

[GuitarPix]

I have a guitar that can do electric pickups to one output and an acoustic pickup to another. I also have a pickup - yet to be installed - that puts regular guitar to one output and a octave or two octave down signal to another output. So I’d say your idea isn’t crazy and could be fun.

 

[hotrodchamp]

Haha that sounds awesome!

I just can’t wrap my head around the potential effects of:

A) independent pickups > mono jack > only into one of the inputs

Against:

B) independent pickups > stereo jack > both inputs

I guess the the main difference would actually depend on how different the inputs are on my Champ. I always thought they were similar. It’s not like ones a clean channel and the other a crunchy one.

I’m just gonna have to experiment.

 

[PlainAllman]

How about just using an AB box into both inputs? Surely someone has tried it before.

 

[hotrodchamp]

How about just using an AB box into both inputs? Surely someone has tried it before.

Yeah that sounds alright actually. Might do that. I’m actually quite interested in having my pickups signals separately going into the inputs. And finding out what that does and sounds like. Thanks for the idea.

 

[gusfinley]

In the classic "low/hi" input jack arrangement, inserting a plug into the Low input sends the signal into a voltage divider with the divider output ( 1/2 signal level ) going to the input stage.

Inserting a plug into the hi input interrupts the voltage divider, halves the input impedance and send the full signal to the input stage.

Unless you rewire your "champ" (not sure you mentioned which model") if you plug into both inputs, then signals will enter the amp at the same point, which I guess would be "parallel."

The classic Marshall "channel" jumping setup is to Plug into to high input of the primary channel, then link the low input of the primary to the high input of the secondary channel. Thus sending the guitar signal to both channels. This can also be done across amplifiers. I have linked three amps and played them all at once using this method and it was AWESOME!

So in short, unless you rewire your input wiring ( assuming a classic "hi/lo" input scenario ) your "stereo" output jack wouldn't really do anything over a mono jack and it would put the signals in parallel.

 

[PlainAllman]

It would be interesting to be able to split the pickups to separate outputs and into separate amps. You may be onto the next big thing.

 

[hotrodchamp]

In the classic "low/hi" input jack arrangement, inserting a plug into the Low input sends the signal into a voltage divider with the divider output ( 1/2 signal level ) going to the input stage.

Inserting a plug into the hi input interrupts the voltage divider, halves the input impedance and send the full signal to the input stage.

Unless you rewire your "champ" (not sure you mentioned which model") if you plug into both inputs, then signals will enter the amp at the same point, which I guess would be "parallel."

The classic Marshall "channel" jumping setup is to Plug into to high input of the primary channel, then link the low input of the primary to the high input of the secondary channel. Thus sending the guitar signal to both channels. This can also be done across amplifiers. I have linked three amps and played them all at once using this method and it was AWESOME!

So in short, unless you rewire your input wiring ( assuming a classic "hi/lo" input scenario ) your "stereo" output jack wouldn't really do anything over a mono jack and it would put the signals in parallel.

Thanks gusfinly. I think I’m grasping what you’re saying. It’s a fender 57 custom tweed champ from 2016. It’s the same one on my profile photo. I guess both inputs of my Champ is the same? I always see people on forums say that input 2 is the better one, (because Keith Richards said so? )

So would I be better off wiring my Tele with a volume and blender pot, maybe in series? To to add some of the ‘darkness’ of my neck humbuckers to the sound?

 

[hotrodchamp]

It would be interesting to be able to split the pickups to separate outputs and into separate amps. You may be onto the next big thing.

Ha! I might just give that a go!

I do have a Rivera era super champ with the ev force 10’s in it that’s absolutely amazing on the clean channel. I’m just stunned every time I plug in to that little amp.

Then for some tweed crunch and drive, I can just turn the volume up for the pickup connected to the champ. Without the super champ cleans getting any louder.

nice. Thanks PlainAllman!

edit:

I do like my neck humbucker with the Super Champ and the broadcaster with the Custom Champ. Great idea

addition: and I don’t think I’ll encounter any ground loops or grounding issues because each signal is grounded. I think?

 

[homesick345]

It would be interesting to be able to split the pickups to separate outputs and into separate amps. You may be onto the next big thing.

It's been done since 1959

Check Gibson ES-355TDSV

 

[hotrodchamp]

It's been done since 1959

Check Gibson ES-355TDSV

Cool! Those are gorgeous guitars. Do you know if the stereo separates the pickups? Or does it somehow divide a combined signal of both pickups? Had a quick look online and lots of sites do say it’s stereo but don’t explain it very well.

and wow those are expensive

 

[Jlwctn]

Notice that the Output jack is Tip, Ring, Sleeve.

 

[homesick345]

Cool! Those are gorgeous guitars. Do you know if the stereo separates the pickups? Or does it somehow divide a combined signal of both pickups? Had a quick look online and lots of sites do say it’s stereo but don’t explain it very well.

and wow those are expensive

This is the ROLLS ROYCE of electric guitars - plain & simple. Each pickup could be routed to a different amp; + hence the "stereo" thing when in the middle position.

You could also use the guitar with the stereo gibson amp - the GA79RV!!!

that's a lot of sexy guitar & amplification right there

 

[AJBaker]

Your idea could work if you're using two amps, or an amp with two separate channels, but a champ just has one channel. One input is slightly attenuated if you use it by itself. Going into both inputs means the signal from both pickups is going to the same place.

Separate volume controls for each pickup might be fun, you just don't need stereo jacks in this case.

 

[PlainAllman]

It's been done since 1959

Check Gibson ES-355TDSV

I have heard of that, but thats a Gibson not a tele.

 

[unixfish]

Carvin used to have stereo guitars back in the 80s / 90s. Maybe Kiesel still does.

They had the same effect - you could run two outputs to different amps / inputs / etc.

I have not seen that on a Tele though. I know a lot of people here have ABY boxes to run different amps. Cool idea you had.

Welcome, but the way!

 

[Peegoo]

Rickenbacker still does too. They call their stereo option Rick-O-Sound.

This concept is not useful for playing live; most guitarists run a mono rig (not all of the audience is centered to the stage), but the studio is where stereo guitars can really shine because you can treat the separate tracks differently.

 

[Wally]

I have owned a Gibson ES-345TDC since 1967. It is a stereo guitar with each pickup being wired to a separate output plug when used with a stereo cable. It can be useful in any setting...live or studio. Live with two identical amps and a stereo pan/way pedal, one can throw the sound from side to side of the soundstage. With only one amp with two channels in phase, one can run wet/dry situations if wanted. My 345 through two Super Champs creates a L-A-R-G-E soundstage.
Not all stereo guitars separate two pickups. Ovation built stereo electric/acoustics that sent 3 strings to the left and three strings to the right....1,3,5 being one side and 2,4,6 being on the other side. ?? Strange from my point of view...but interesting.
Multiple mono set-ups such as gusfinley describes also creates a large soundstage. I have no idea what drove me to do it, but I remember daisy-chaining three amps together in maybe 1966...with my first electric guitar which was an early ‘60s white Les Paul Jr(SG body].
Enjoy the search. A stereo Telecaster would be interes8ng, but a Champ by itself will not reap the benefits of such a guitar. And.....it would demand a layout like the Telecaster Custom with controls more like a...wait for it.....a two pickup Gibson!!! Eeehaw

good morning!

okay...picture of my ES-345TDC..purchased new in June of 1967 when I was 16. I washed and greased cars to make enough to pay off the $400 balance left when I traded in that L.P.(SG) Junior. $40 a week for 10 weeks....that is somewhere around $300 a week today. Yeah, pay was better then.....I was maybe making $11-12 an hour.

 

[hotrodchamp]

In the classic "low/hi" input jack arrangement, inserting a plug into the Low input sends the signal into a voltage divider with the divider output ( 1/2 signal level ) going to the input stage.

Inserting a plug into the hi input interrupts the voltage divider, halves the input impedance and send the full signal to the input stage.

Unless you rewire your "champ" (not sure you mentioned which model") if you plug into both inputs, then signals will enter the amp at the same point, which I guess would be "parallel."

The classic Marshall "channel" jumping setup is to Plug into to high input of the primary channel, then link the low input of the primary to the high input of the secondary channel. Thus sending the guitar signal to both channels. This can also be done across amplifiers. I have linked three amps and played them all at once using this method and it was AWESOME!

So in short, unless you rewire your input wiring ( assuming a classic "hi/lo" input scenario ) your "stereo" output jack wouldn't really do anything over a mono jack and it would put the signals in parallel.

Wow thanks for explaining that gusfinley. I didn’t have a clue. I’m not going to mess with the champ

 

[hotrodchamp]

Your idea could work if you're using two amps, or an amp with two separate channels, but a champ just has one channel. One input is slightly attenuated if you use it by itself. Going into both inputs means the signal from both pickups is going to the same place.

Separate volume controls for each pickup might be fun, you just don't need stereo jacks in this case.

I was just going to plug both into the champ. But ofcourse now I’ve learned that doing that is useless haha. But PlainAllman’s thought about using two amps is cool! I love the idea of being able to have my Super Champs glorious cleans then adding my Tweed Champs growl when needed