Champ and Effects..

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Texicaster, Apr 6, 2020.

  1. Texicaster

    Texicaster Tele-Afflicted

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    ¡Bueno!™

    I have a '57 Tweed RI Champ. I tried a couple very highly rated effects and they left me stone cold. Strymon Flint for one did zero for me. As I've explained elsewhere it more or less erased the killer tone of the Champ to my ears; its effect just seemed to overwhelm the Champ and replaced it with a colder tone. I have no idea why this would be...

    I'm curious if this is to be expected with such a basic amp or just this one combination not a good match to my ears?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Friend of Leo's

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    Some pedals are gonna work better with a particular amp than others. But ultimately, it's subjective. You get used to the basic sound of a 'simple' amp, because that's all it does. Anything that changes it is likely to seem like it's being changed fundamentally, IMO.

    There are lots of tried and true tremelo/vibrato and reverb amp designs. The Tweed Champ is not one of them. Just sayin'. Reverb and trem add a lot to an amp circuit. Way beyond the basic Champ topography.
     
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  3. TheDams

    TheDams Tele-Holic

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    I have been using for years a Van Amps Solemate and a JHS Honeycomb (v1) on 2 different Champs (5f1 and 5c1)... great tone !
     
  4. naveed211

    naveed211 Tele-Holic

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    Just depends what you’re looking for. I’ve had two different blackface Champs at different times in my life. The first one I ran low volume clean and had an OCD, klone, and delay in front. It was basically my micro-Twin or whatever pedal platform. Sounded cool, but not that “classic” Champ tone.

    The second one I had more recently, I tried a few pedals, but all I really liked was either the amp cranked by itself or with a tube screamer in front. I was just feeling the natural tone more than anything else.

    Champs have such a classic, distinct tone. It can work with pedals, but if you have a specific “Champ” tone in your head, it’s likely just cranked by itself.
     
  5. Texicaster

    Texicaster Tele-Afflicted

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    What about the Vibro Champ?

    Was the schematic changed drastically or a circuit simply added?

    Thanks!
     
  6. gitold

    gitold Poster Extraordinaire

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    I always thought a compressor through a Champ used sparingly was the bomb but that’s me.
     
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  7. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    Distortion and delay are a funny thing. IMO the best way to add delay to a distorted tone is to record it dry and add delay in the mix.

    Two other ways to do it are to stick a pedal in front of the amp or stick a delay in the FX loop in the middle of the amp.

    There is relatively broad consensus that delay patched into an FX loop is the way to do it, live.

    Different circuit. Less gain although more recent '57 reissues incorporate a stupid pet trick to knock down the gain.

    I gotta build me a Vibro Champ with a simple FX loop.
     
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  8. Fiesta Red

    Fiesta Red Friend of Leo's

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    This is a perfect example of why people use the term “It takes pedals well” when they’re describing an amp.

    Some amps don’t really gel well with effects—especially modulation effects like Leslie simulators, phase shifters, flangers or chorus...I especially notice this with small amps (Champs, VibroChamps, Pignose, for example).

    This may be the case with your 57RI Champ.
     
  9. CCK1

    CCK1 Tele-Meister

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    I use a Zoom MS-50G multi effect unit with my 1965 Champ when I want some reverb or tremolo at clean volumes. For more distorted tones, I use the Tube Screamer setting in the MS-50G, or more often, I just dime the controls. Hard to beat a cranked Champ.
     
  10. schenkadere

    schenkadere Friend of Leo's

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    I could never warm up to reverb or delay in front of a dirty amp.
     
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  11. bumnote

    bumnote Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

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    Other than reverb, if I'm using any effect with my 5F1 clone...an EQ pedal is a must. IMO it's the lack of a tone circuit that makes the Champ finicky with pedals. There's no way to adjust for the tonal qualities a pedal adds, even if the pedal has a tone control like an OD pedal.

    There's an old saying that an EQ pedal is the most overlooked effects pedal...a Champ is the perfect example.
     
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  12. muscmp

    muscmp Tele-Afflicted

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    i have a 75 vibro champ and 76 champ that i run a pedalboard thru. mostly stereo pedals. sometimes i use a bunch of pedals and sometimes i use just a fulltone fulldrive3 and sometimes just the amps alone. as usual a lot of tweaking and experimenting necessary.
     
  13. El Tele Lobo

    El Tele Lobo Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    I've had pretty good luck with Joyo (d-Seed) and Keeley (Caverns v2) delays with my 12" champ clone.

    I've also had good luck with the TC Electronic Spark Booster, JHS Prestige, various Klon clones (currently a Nux Horseman) and a Tone City Comp Engine and Tremble tremolo. The Suhr Jackrabbit played well with it too.

    In the end, it comes down to your ears. If it doesn't sound good...keep looking. I bought an EHX Canyon, plugged it in through my Champ and unplugged it 5 minutes later and never used it again. Same as you...removed all my glorious tone and made it sound cold and sterile. To be honest, while the Keeley was better, it didn't wow me either. I bought this Joyo d-Seed for less than a hundred bucks and it's one of the best and most versatile delays I've ever used. Go figure.
     
  14. tarheelbob

    tarheelbob Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    On my Tweed 5F1 Champ clone, I try to back off the pedals as much as possible. A touch of delay seems to work best if simplified to a single repeat, slapback effect. If I use my HOF Reverb, again, a simple Spring setting with rolled off effect seems to be about all the Champ wants. "Swimming pool" effect levels just don't seem to gybe well with the Champ circuit. A little goes a long way. Other than that, I just crank it up and let the Champ do its thing.

    For dirt, my Timmy with its ability to "cut" bass and treble tone inputs does a decent job. But, frankly, I don't seem to need it much with this amp.

    - Bob
     
  15. Texicaster

    Texicaster Tele-Afflicted

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    I've been watching Strymon Deco demos....

    All the music stores closed around here so can't try it first.....
     
  16. soundchaser59

    soundchaser59 Tele-Afflicted

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    One of the most inspiring sounds I ever stumbled on was when I plugged my strat into an Allums modded CS3, into an Allums modded Ibanez Tube Screamer, into the 1965 blackface Champ with a new Weber 8 inch Blue Pup in it. It sounded like Patrick Simmons and Tom Johnston had come to visit. Sometimes I just get lucky.
     
  17. wrathfuldeity

    wrathfuldeity Tele-Afflicted

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    Have a muchxs champ with an old alnico 6x9 jensen...it's the BOMB. It lets the character of the git shine. Not that it needs pedals...but it takes pedals darn well. That being said...the less the pedal the more ya get. Also think that the spkr is a factor in whether pedals work well or not. I can't imagine the cheap, raspy, farty speakers that most stock champs have are going to exhibit a pedal very well. Otoh often use a diy over-sized 1x12 cab with a big ribbed alnico...and love it with this little champ. Point is not all champs are created equal nor have good spkrs.
     
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  18. Hatfield92

    Hatfield92 Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    This is an excellent point that merits repeating. I owned an early silverface champ for several years, and it never sounded better than when it was plugged into a buddy’s old 4x12 bassman cab.

    Also want to reiterate the benefits of an EQ pedal, particularly with an amp with limited (or, in OP’s case, no) built-in tone controls. Really helps you dial in your sound. I use mine to give my brownface Princeton clone a little blackface mojo whenever I want.
     
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  19. ce24

    ce24 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Muchxs rebuilt my vibrochamp and made the tone stack footswitchable so it actually a boost.....just pure amp....glorious with a weber 12” alnico. Im currently waiting for a big morpheous princeton reverb from him...im sure it will be gloriouser!
     
  20. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    You have the amp that many others are measured by. The ability to make it break up then back off for clean at not much different volumes.

    A low repeat slap delay works well into one. But reverb - tends to get lost in the harmonics. Samo-samo AC30s and other amps with no NFB.

    Now you know why Leo cleaned up the front end of BF Reverb amps. Lotsa gain in preamp means any effect tends too much with many Tweeds.
     
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