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Champ 600 Owners Club

Discussion in 'Amp Owners Clubs' started by cjburr, Jun 13, 2009.

  1. bluesky636

    bluesky636 Tele-Holic

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    There is no need to overdrive the front end with a booster or other pedal. I can easily overdrive the power stage in my 5F1 configured C600 using just the pickups in my guitar. Power amp distortion is a completely different type of distortion and sounds totally different from preamp distortion.

    Subsequent stages do not "smooth" the signal whatever that means. If they are operated within their design parameters they will simply amplify the signal more. If they are not, they will also distort the signal.
     
  2. Lazer

    Lazer Tele-Meister

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    A tube or a valve has a fairly limited frequenzy range and overdriven signals contains a lot
    of high frequenzy content. The closer to the output limit the harder it will get to follow
    the signal. This will have the effect of "rounding off" or "smoothething" the signal.
    Theorerically this is the same as filtering high frequenzy content. Just hook up an oscillosope an check for Yourself.

    "Subsequent stages do not "smooth" the signal whatever that means. If they are operated within their design parameters they will simply amplify the signal more. If they are not, they will also distort the signal. "

    The distortion You mention here is the "smoothing" i talk about and it work both ways.
    A clean signal will be "hardened" if You like, and an already distorted signal will appear
    "smothed".

    Yes preamp distortion sounds completely different, but unfortunately this is not the 600´s forte.

    Cheers
    L-zr
     
  3. bluesky636

    bluesky636 Tele-Holic

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    I received my degree in electrical engineering in 1976, back when tubes were still part of the curriculum. When did you get yours?

    Just for grins and giggles, I tried your approach. I turned the amp down to about 5 and the guitar to 10. To get any kind of overdrive sound out of it (preamp or otherwise), I had to max out my E-H LPB-1. Even then the drive was barely audible. With the amp volume wide open and the guitar wide open I got great power tube overdrive with just the pickups alone. I know what I'll stick with. :cool:
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  4. Bruce Wayne

    Bruce Wayne Tele-Holic

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    moved the heater wire off to the side a little while I was installing the new Weber Ceramic speaker today. reduced the hum a little bit. thanks Bill
     
  5. Lazer

    Lazer Tele-Meister

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    "I received my degree in electrical engineering in 1976, back when tubes were still part of the curriculum. When did you get yours?

    Just for grins and giggles, I tried your approach. I turned the amp down to about 5 and the guitar to 10. To get any kind of overdrive sound out of it (preamp or otherwise), I had to max out my E-H LPB-1. Even then the drive was barely audible. With the amp volume wide open and the guitar wide open I got great power tube overdrive with just the pickups alone. I know what I'll stick with"

    A few years later... With everything wide open both of mine sound horrible so I know I'l
    stick with the sweet pot around 4-6 and overdrive the input.

    Cheers
    L-zr
     
  6. tlimbert65

    tlimbert65 Tele-Afflicted

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    Dang, that was supposed to say Squier Deluxe STRAT! That made no sense at all.
     
  7. bluesky636

    bluesky636 Tele-Holic

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    Good to hear. :D
     
  8. bluesky636

    bluesky636 Tele-Holic

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    That's cuz your's is stock and looks basically like this:

    http://ampwares.com/schematics/champ_aa764.pdf

    Mine looks like this:

    http://ampwares.com/schematics/champ_5f1.pdf

    BIG difference in gain structure and sound. :D
     
  9. Lazer

    Lazer Tele-Meister

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    Close but not quite and then I don't see Your comparison making sense.

    My point is just that I like it best the way it is, and someone wants tons of distortion
    probably does better looking elsewhere.

    For me this unit is a sidekick that I don't see any point in spending too much on.
    That said I totally understand all the tinkerers out there that does it for fun. But
    my original post was for the rest of us.

    Cheers
    L-zr
     
  10. bluesky636

    bluesky636 Tele-Holic

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    The comparison is simple and quite obvious: Fender in building the C600 made no attempt to replicate the sound of the amp as it was built in the late 40's/early 50's. Instead the design of the amp is a clone of the mid-60's Silverface Champ AA764 circuit. Totally different design, totally different sound. Compare the circuits. Except for the power supplies and a fixed tone stack, the C600 circuit is virtually identical to the AA764 right down to the component values.

    http://ampwares.com/schematics/champ_aa764.pdf

    http://support.fender.com/schematics/guitar_amplifiers/Champion_600_schematic.pdf

    People that mod this amp are not looking for tons of distortion, at least I am not. Instead, people are looking for the sound of the early 50's Fender amps. That is easily accomplished with the removal and addition of a few simple parts. There is no need to change major components. Most people do change the tubes as the stock Chinese tubes are, quite frankly, crap. With those simple mods, the amp now appears as this:

    http://ampwares.com/schematics/champ_5f1.pdf

    With the exception of a solid state power suppy, I have modded my amp to look exactly like the 5F1 circuit. The only other change I made was to replace the two 0.02 mfd coupling caps with two 0.0022 mfd coupling caps to raise the -3 db low end roll off from 7 hz up to about 70 hz to prevent muddiness when using the amp with a larger than stock speaker. I even changed the power supply resistors to the same values as the 5F1 which changes the tube supply voltages to more of what they were in the 50's (Fender supply voltages are way too high in the stock amp). Ignoring the cost of a speaker and tube change (which most people do anyway), the total cost of components for the mod is maybe $15.

    The net result is an amp that achieves probably 90% to 95% of the sound of a vintage Tweed Champ and gives a nice clean sound at low volume all the way to a sweet, cranked power tube overdrive at higher volume (but still at bedroom levels) with nothing more than a guitar plugged straight into the amp. Set the amp to 12 and control everything with the guitar volume control.

    I certainly understand that, I just wanted to explain why I and others find the amp so moddable. Rock on! :D
     
  11. Lazer

    Lazer Tele-Meister

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    By all means go ahead and mod away. I am just trying to help the ones who doesn't
    want to. Find the sweet spot and use an overdrive pedal or booster.

    Some people on this forum do indeed want to transform this unit into a distortion
    monster.

    Cheers
    L-zr
     
  12. Kyluckyman

    Kyluckyman Tele-Holic

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    I am sitting here reading this thread while I wait very patiently for the Fed Ex truck to pull to a stop in front of my house and watch as the driver comes to the front door with my new Fender Champion 600 amp from Sweetwater. I will greet him at the door and accept the package. I have been eyeing this model since they were on sale during the holidaze 3 years ago for the awesome price of 89 bucks and free shipping. However I could not swing the purchase due to Christmas expenses and taxes on the house and regretted it since. So now, over three years later...I await delivery.
     
  13. MadJack

    MadJack Friend of Leo's

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  14. mrpicki

    mrpicki TDPRI Member

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    I think these sound better at around half volume with good drive pedal, not a clean boost pedal but an overdrive pedal like a Tubescreamer. I've used mine in the studio this way with great results.
     
  15. bluesky636

    bluesky636 Tele-Holic

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    That's cool, but you can easily mod the stock PCB to an exact 5F1 circuit (less the tube rectifier) and get the same results for a lot less money. Drop the voltage out of the solid state rectifier and the difference in sound between the two is minimal.
     
  16. asnarski

    asnarski TDPRI Member

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    Same here, I use a Bad Monkey at about half volume for distortion. Only mods are a decent 12ax7 and replaced the grill cloth. Sounds great to me!
     
  17. Amstrat

    Amstrat TDPRI Member

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    8" speaker query

    Greetings

    Read all 500 posts. Facinating.

    Want to yank my speaker and grill cloth and install an 8" on a new baffle.

    Points unsure of:

    Planning to use a Weber Sig 8"

    Q1 Regular or S? What is dif?

    Q2 Will is fit with a JJ 6V6s?

    Q3 Where do I source a small amount of speaker cloth?

    Q4 Best baffle board material.

    All the very best

    Larry
     
  18. Amstrat

    Amstrat TDPRI Member

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    oops missed one

    Q 5 What mounting hardware for nw speaker to new baffle?

    TIA

    Larry
     
  19. Mat

    Mat Tele-Meister

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    Picked up my second last week (sold the original a couple of years ago).

    Really enjoying the stock sounds - came with a GT 6V6 and generic Chinese 12AX7 which sounded fine in conjuction with the stock speaker.
     
  20. Kyluckyman

    Kyluckyman Tele-Holic

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    I have ordered:

    GE JAN CG 6V6GT 6V6 GT
    and a
    Electro-Harmonix 12AX7 EH EH-12AX7

    We'll see how it goes.
     
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